mole; dressage

Mon Apr 16 16:15:45 UTC 2012

Note that the 1938 ex. is for the mutually synonymous "rat" and "fink"
separately.

"Rat-fink" does not appear in Berrey & Van den Bark 1942, '47, or '53.

JL

On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at wmich.edu>wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: mole; dressage
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I was going to say that--when I was in 6th grade or so (1961-62), everyone
> was calling everyone a "rat fink"--and it wasn't just Allan Sherman (the
> song-a parody of "Ragmop"- came out after the expression was
> well-established in my crowd).  As I remember, Steve Allen was using it
> too, along with his "schmockingbird" shtick, which also went viral among my
> friends.  Brings back memories of late childhood.
>
> Paul Johnston
>
> On Apr 16, 2012, at 10:15 AM, Victor Steinbok wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Victor Steinbok <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: mole; dressage
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > How quickly they forget! (Come on! It's only been what, 50 years?)
> >
> > http://goo.gl/Fg8ZK
> > Billboard Sep 18, 1965
> > Astros Aim Rat Fing Hex At the Phillies. p. 59/5
> >> As reported in the Aug. 10 Houston Chronicle:
> >> "Tonight was Rat Fink night at the Houston Astros' Domed Stadium. All
> >> fans attending the game between the Phillies and Houston were given a
> >> Rat Fink in an effort to break the hex that the Phillies have had over
> >> the Astros, who have lost 49 times in 66 tries over
> >
> > http://goo.gl/SGdTq
> > Boys' Life. Volume 54(10). Revell News. Volume 2(1). June 1964
> > Oh-h Brother! (Ad) p. 51/1
> >> (Brother Rat Fink that is!)
> >> Ed "Big Daddy" Roth is at it again ...he's created a sequel to Rat
> >> Fink even more hideously handsome than the original. It's Brother Rat
> >> Fink (on a bicycle yet with his own little friend, a sanitary Rat
> >> Fink)! No home is complete without this lovable pet which comes
> >> complete with wild painting instructions and an informative history of
> >> where the Rat Fink name came from. (Anyone really interested?) Brother
> >> Rat Fink...$1.00.
> >
> > http://goo.gl/eekYp
> > Boys' Life. Volume 54(6). Revell News. Volume 1(7). October 1964
> > It's Election Time! (Ad) p. 11/1
> >> Cast Your VOTE NOW For Your FAVORITE MONSTER!
> >> Mr. Basser
> >> ...
> >> Rat Fink
> >> Despite name (obtained, no doubt, in mud-slinging campaign), presents
> >> outstanding choice in field rated fr snaggle-toothed creeps driving
> >> outlandish automotive devices. Also costs less to maintain in office.
> >> See below.
> >> Mother's Worry
> >> ...
> >> Drag Nut
> >> Backed solidly by Political Boss Ed "Big Daddy" Roth, who is reputed
> >> to have something to do with some of the other candidates too. Carries
> >> small-size Rat Fink as ward heeler to try and win votes away from
> >> large-size Rat Fink.
> >> Brother Rat Fink
> >> Looks like the political barrel is stuffed with many different members
> >> of the Fink family. Not so! Each monster runs his own race...no matter
> >> how gruesome a candidate he presents! ...
> >
> > There are also quite a number of references (from Jet and Billboard,
> > among others) to "Kannon's [East Side Manhattan] Rat Fink Room" and a
> > few literary mentions, including in Barefoot in the Park (First
> > performance: Oct. 23, 1963 at the Biltmore)
> >
> > http://goo.gl/Z3GXw
> > Journal of Law and Criminology. 1938[?]
> > [looks like a glossary] p. 276
> >> Stool-pigeon ... The term for stool-pigeons in polite literature is
> >> /Government informer/. Addicts refer to him as /rat, long-tailed rat,
> >> fink, louse, mouse, stool,/ etc.
> >
> > Very nearly the same:
> >
> > http://goo.gl/AhdAe
> > American Speech. 1938 [?]
> > p. 191/2
> >> STOOL-PIGEON. A government informer. Also /long-tailed rat, fink, rat,
> >> mouse/, and several other terms which are unprintable.
> >
> > For some reason, 1938 is a popular tag for descriptive terminology that
> > involves both "rat" and "fink".
> >
> > http://goo.gl/lYNjU
> > The story of the CIO. By Benjamin Stolberg. New York: 1938
> > p. 144
> >> The favorite terms are moral degenerate, rat, fink, stool-pigeon,
> >> "Trotskyist" spy, fascist agent. It calls Norman Thomas an ally of
> >> fascism, Max Eastman a British agent, Homer Martin a Japanese stooge,
> >> the present writer a stool-pigeon and fascist.
> >
> > None of the three have been verified, although the cover image for the
> > latter does clearly display "1938".
> >
> > There is not a whole lot surprise that when two words appear in sequence
> > so frequently, someone would decide to combine them with the same
> > purpose ;-)
> >
> > The only other snippet that falls between 1938 and 1963 and looks
> > authentic is the one for Bill Davidson, quoted by Jon (below).
> >
> > http://goo.gl/17tpR
> >
> > The rest, although tempting, failed the spurious-tag test--all appear to
> > be at least from the mid-1960s, some even later (like the Canadian
> > reference to "1-800-rat-fink" line, which is from the 1970s, but tagged
> > as 1964). Davidson's usage clearly was not original, but a quick check
> > that I ran did not revel anything of use prior to that date.
> >
> > In any case, the plastic "monsters" explain why it was "popular in
> '63-'67".
> >
> >     VS-)
> >
> >
> > On 4/16/2012 8:41 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >>> From the files:
> >>
> >> 1961 Bill Davidson _The Real and the Unreal_ (N.Y.: Harper) 181: In
> certain
> >> segments of Hollywood society, I have been called such choice names as
> an
> >> invader of privacy, a dirty *rat fink*, and an evil, whisky-drinking,
> >> poker-playing middle-aged man.
> >>
> >> The compound was a big deal from about '63-'67, IIRC.
> >>
> >> JL
> >
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