the over-under is.... (UNCLASSIFIED)

Wed Apr 18 19:29:32 UTC 2012

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Should there not also be an entry for "over-under shotgun"; a
double-barreled shotgun in which the barrels are one above the other as
opposed to side-by-side?

_Washington Post_ 12 Feb 1974 p D7 col 5
"One new item that holds promise for the field shooter is the new
Beretta BL-2/S, the over-under shotgun by Garcia that has an unusual
selective trigger."

> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
Behalf Of
> Garson O'Toole
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 12:06 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: the over-under is....
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
----------------------
> -
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: the over-under is....
>
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> -
>
> Here is an instance of "over-under" in 1976. The sportswriter thought
> it would be a novel term to some of his readers.
>
> Cite: 1976 March 13, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Notes off the cuff by Hal
> Lebovitz,  Section: Sports, Start Page 1-C, Quote Page 6-C, Column 2,
> Cleveland, Ohio. (GenealogyBank)
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> In case you didn't know, one of the pro basketball betting gimmicks is
> the "over-under" wager. Instead of betting on a certain team, you bet
> on the total points the two teams combined will score.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Garson
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Laurence Horn
<laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
--------------------
> ---
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > Subject:      Re: the over-under is....
> >
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> ---
> >
> > It's been used for a while now in contexts like the one you mention
below,
> e.g. taking the under for whether a celebrity marriage (often although
not
> always involving some random Kardashian) will last longer than a
certain
> estimated number of days.  I agree that there's often a clear
connection with
> sports commentary, so I'd guess this is more likely to appear on PTI
("Pardon
> the Interruption" on ESPN, a commentary show co-hosted by Michael
Wilbon and
> the below-mentioned Kornheiser) than on a gossip show with no sports
> connection.
> >
> > LH
> >
> > On Apr 18, 2012, at 11:30 AM, George Thompson wrote:
> >
> >> "Over-under" is a sports gambling term seemingly not in the
recently
> >> revised "O" section of the OED.  It is a common betting proposition
in
> >> football: the Pope of bookmakers sets a number, and the suckers bet
on
> >> whether the final score of the two teams, combined, in the game
will
> >> be over or under that number.  In making the bet, the sucker takes
the
> >> over or the under.
> >>
> >> It has passed from referring to a literal betting proposition to a
> >> figurative sense.
> >>
> >> Searching the Proquest newspapers for "over under" turned out to be
> >> unprofitable, since that sequence in other contexts is far more
common
> >> than I would have thought.
> >> Searching for "over under is" takes it back to September 24, 1979,
in
> >> the Chicago Tribune:
> >> "Latest line.  Favorite Dallas, Points 3 Underdog Cleveland.
> >> Over-Under: 39  Over-Under is the betting line on the total number
of
> >> points scored by the two teams in the game, over or under the line
> >> figure."
> >> In the LA Times, December 28, 1980, Jim Murray made plans to teach
his
> >> new granddaughter that "over-under is a sucker bet", along with a
> >> number of other bits of no doubt hard-earned wisdom.
> >> By 1987, Tony Kornheiser was using it in other contexts, as for
> >> instance, the Washington Redskins line coach favors very big men,
with
> >> 300 lbs as the over-under.  (not a verbatim quote).
> >>
> >> A report in the NYTimes Business Section today marks the first time
I
> >> have noticed this expression in the mouth (or from the fingers) of
> >> someone not a sportswriter.  The first time noticed in the NYTimes,
> >> too, for that matter: I have mainly encountered it in the sports
> >> section of the [NY] Daily News.
> >>> From a story about Warren Buffett's announcement that he has
developed
> >> prostate cancer: ""Go to any actuarial table; a healthy,
stress-free
> >> 81-year-old has a 12-year life expectancy, and I'll take the over
on
> >> that," said Whitney Tilson, the managing partner at T2 Partners and
a
> >> Berkshire shareholder."  (NYTimes, April 18, 2012, B Section, p. 1,
> >> col. 6)
> >>
> >> No doubt the old wisecrack regarding an ill-matched marriage, "I
give
> >> it six months" is now, in some circle, being expressed as "I put
the
> >> over-under at six months".
> >>
> >> GAT
> >>
> >> George A. Thompson
> >> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre",
Northwestern
> >> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.  Working on a new
edition,
> >> though.
> >>
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> >
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>
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