mystery quote: "Men like war...."

Sat Feb 11 21:37:32 UTC 2012

The quote attributed to Lucy Ellmann may or not be accurate and
remains problematical.

Its earliest discovered appearance, as cited, is in_365 Women's
Reflections on  Men_, ed. by Catherine M. Edmonson. GB dates this book
to 1996, but WorldCat gives a pub. date of 1997. It reappears on the
Net many thousands of times, attributed to Lucy "Ellman."

I could not find the quote in print copies of either _Sweet Desserts_
or _Varying Degrees of Hopelessness_,the two books Ellmann pub'd
before 1996/97.

However, a form of the quote does appear in Ellmann's _Man or Mango?_
(N.Y.: Farrar, Straus & Giroux, *1998*), p. 114, as part of a list
made by a hapless lady lunatic:

"HOW EVERYTHING WRONG WITH THE WORLD IS MEN'S FAULT: ...

"1. Kleenex. Man-size Kleenex is not only bigger but softer. They
think women don't blow their noses. Men rule the world. ...

"7. Death. Unable to make babies, they make bombs instead. Men
menstruate by shedding _other_ people's blood."

Just what an elborated variant of the quote is doing in an anthology
pub'd before the novel is a mystery, though as Garson suggested, not
necessarily a preternatural one.

In any event, if you like witty, formless, desperate whimsy, with a
maraschino of blackest despair, I can recommend _Man or Mango?_
wholeheartedly.

JL

On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Jonathan Lighter
<wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: mystery quote: "Men like war...."
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Negative results from a GB snippet search don't mean much. Sometimes they
> don't scan the whole book.  More than once I've looked at a passage in the
> actual book in front of me only to have GB suggest that it isn't there.
>
> Our library doesn't own either book.
>
> JL
>
> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Garson O'Toole
> <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: mystery quote: "Men like war...."
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>
>> JL wrote:
>> > The date suggests that the quote is from either Ellmann's prize-winning
>> > _Sweet Desserts_ (1988) or from the less sweet _Varying Degrees of
>> > Hopelessness_ (1991).
>>
>> Google Books contains these two volumes and they are searchable and
>> viewable in snippets. Based on search results: _Varying Degrees of
>> Hopelessness_ does not contain "shedding", "sway", "menstruate", or
>> "like war". _Sweet Desserts_ does not contain "shedding", "sway", or
>> "like war". Hence, the quotation is in neither book. (Alternatively,
>> GB search is flawed, or the quote is phrased differently.)
>>
>> Below is the quotation and attribution in _365 Women's Reflections on
>> Men_ (1996) by Catherine M. Edmonson based on extracted text and
>> snippets:
>>
>> Men like war: they do not hold
>> much sway over birth, so
>> they make up for it with death. Unlike
>> women, men menstruate by shedding
>> other people's blood.
>>                           - Lucy Ellman
>>
>> (The spelling of "Ellman" is the one visible in a snippet from the text.)
>>
>> Ellmann may have communicated the remark in a short story, essay,
>> speech, or interview. It is also possible that the attribution is
>> incorrect and Edmonson's claim is flawed.
>>
>> The quote comparing a man to a mango apparently appears in Ellmann's
>> novel "Man or Mango: A Lament". GB contains the book but it is in no
>> preview mode. An excerpt was posted on the blog of Maud Newton. Within
>> the novel the protagonist who is teaching a course on writing is
>> reviewing a notebook that contains a work titled "MANGO vs. MAN":
>>
>> http://maudnewton.com/blog/?p=3D3721
>>
>> From the absent student=92s notebook:
>>
>> MANGO vs. MAN
>> In what way is a man more than a mango?
>> Is he more useful about the house?
>> Is he more beautiful?
>> Is he as generous and obliging as this succulent fruit gently ripening
>> on your window sill?
>> Is his ripeness as tender?
>> Will your children like him as much as they=92d like a mango?
>> Has he got anything to offer in atonement for not being a mango?
>>
>> Mangoes do not lord it over everybody at committee meetings.
>> Nor do they monopolize the conversation at dinner.
>> With even the most lethargic of men, there is still the threat of
>> physical force.
>> Not so with a mango.
>> A mango=92s ears do not stick out.
>> A woman does not have to wear lipstick and high heels in order to
>> spend an evening with a mango.
>> A woman does not have to wash her hair for a mango.
>> I have only known one mango that was no good.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
> --=20
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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