origin of dese dem dose in NYCE

[Dan Goncharoff]

OTOH, the non-Dutch theory suffers from concluding that, although
Dutch and German were a dominant foreign language in NYC from the
beginnings of New Amsterdam through the 19th Century up to the General
Slocum disaster and WWI, they are thought to have no influence
whatsoever.
DanG
who wonders what accent the German-born John Jacob Astor spoke...



On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Jonathan Lighter
<wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: origin of dese dem dose in NYCE
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The "Dutch" theory and others suffer fatally from the double
> assumption that there was just one determining factor (a particular
> foreign language or earlier English dialect) and that a little
> reflection and "common sense" will identify it.
>
> JL
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Ronald Butters <ronbutters at aol.com> wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Ronald Butters <ronbutters at AOL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: origin of dese dem dose in NYCE
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> This vowel is also heard in New Orleans, and among older Black speakers =
>> in the South. Not too bloody likely that the Dutch had much to do with =
>> it.
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2012, at 10:23 AM, James A. Landau wrote:
>>
>>> There is a stereotype that people from Brooklyn pronounce /@r/ as /oi/ =
>> or /ui/.
>>> ("toidy-toid and toid avenue").
>>>=20
>>> Could this be, contrary to your statement above, a holdover from Dutc
>>
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>
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