dese, dem and dose

[Dan Goncharoff]

You are correct that the characters of Kramden and Norton are of
indeterminate origin.

Both actors, however, were Irish-American. Gleason was from Bushwick,
Brooklyn, and his mother was born in Cork. Arthur William Matthew
“Art” Carney was born in Mount Vernon, NY to Irish-American parents.

DanG



On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Ronald Butters <ronbutters at aol.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Ronald Butters <ronbutters at AOL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: dese, dem and dose
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thanks for this. What I observe is that Ralph's "these" are generally =
> full fricatives, and some are affricates, whereas "in the" becomes =
> "inna." But this just mirrors the inherent sociolinguistic variability =
> of the feature (as I said). If Alice invariably uses the fricative, =
> that, too, follows the sociolinguistic "rule" that women are more likely =
> to use standard forms than are their menfolk. One would predict that =
> Norton, being a plumber, would have more "dese" and "dose."=20
>
> The scene is set in Brooklyn, but nothing is noticeably Jewish or Dutch =
> or Italian (or Finnish) about their heritage.
>
>
> On Feb 13, 2012, at 10:41 AM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
>
>> Ralph Kramden didn't say 'the' though.
>>=20
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DUbCv6b96OK0
>>=20
>> Alice clearly did, however.
>>=20
>> DanG
>
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