"say uncle" antedated (?) to 1887

[Garson O'Toole]

Dave Wilton has a web page on this topic at the Word Origins website here:
http://www.wordorigins.org/index.php/site/say_uncle/

Michael Quinion has a webpage on the topic at World Wide Words here:
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-say1.htm

Both mention the parrot joke and provide a citation for the Iowa
Citizen on October 9, 1891. Doug Wilson found it and placed it in the
ADS archive in 2005. Here is a citation for the same tale a bit
earlier in the LA Times which acknowledges a source called "Spare
Moments".

Cite: 1891 August 21, Los Angeles Times, A Bright Parrot, Page 8,
Column 4, Los Angeles, California. (ProQuest)

A gentleman was boasting that his parrot would repeat anything he told
him. For example, he told him several times, before some friends, to
say “Uncle,” but he would not repeat it. In anger he seized the bird
and half twisting his neck said: “Say ‘uncle,’ you beggar!” and threw
him into the fowl pen, in which he had ten prize fowls. Shortly
afterward, thinking he had killed the parrot, he went to the pen. To
his surprise he saw nine of the fowls dead on the floor, with their
necks wrung, and the parrot standing on the tenth twisting his neck
and screaming, “Say ‘uncle,’ you beggar! say 'uncle!"

(Typos possible in the original text and mine.)

Stephen Goranson posted a cite with this phrase:
>> R. F. Drake wonders why the little fellow doesn't learn to say "uncle."

Douglas G. Wilson wrote:
> I don't find clear mention of a child or pet associated with R. E. Drake.

Inherent in Doug's comment is one possible interpretation. Drake may
have had a young nephew who had not yet said "uncle" to him.

Garson

On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 2:44 AM, Douglas G. Wilson <douglas at nb.net> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Douglas G. Wilson" <douglas at NB.NET>
> Subject:      Re: "say uncle" antedated (?) to 1887
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 1/7/2012 11:58 AM, Stephen Goranson wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Stephen Goranson<goranson at DUKE.EDU>
>> Subject:      "say uncle" antedated (?) to 1887
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> One of the proposals for the origin of "say uncle" (OED: "to acknowledge de=
>> feat, to cry for mercy")
>> is a 1890 joke about a parrot urged to say that.
>>
>> If the following is interpreted in the idiomatic sense, then the 1890-attes=
>> ted joke would be antedated:
>> ....
>> Dr. Martin: "Give one of the symptoms of shock." Senior: "A cold, flabby sw=
>> eat."
>> R. F. Drake wonders why the little fellow doesn't learn to say "uncle."....
>>
>> The Michigan Argonaut, Oct. 29, 1887, vol. 6, no. 4,  p. 34 col. 3.
> --
>
> Interesting.
>
> I see that this passage is in a student periodical, in a section devoted
> to little items of current news among dental students. R. E. Drake was
> one of these students. I don't know who/what the "little fellow" was:
> probably this is some kind of inside joke. I don't think one can know
> the referent from this short item. I don't find clear mention of a child
> or pet associated with R. E. Drake. Apparently he belonged to a
> fraternity and played brass instruments. I suppose he was Rollin Edwards
> Drake (b. 1868).
>
> The preceding item with Dr. Martin appears presumably unrelated. I
> suppose this is just for humor: some senior student said "flabby"
> instead of "clammy", I suppose, ha ha.
>
> -- Doug Wilson
>
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