dodge Pompey

Mon Jul 2 16:31:44 UTC 2012

Yes, but my question is really about the connection of "dodging" with "Pompey."

Joel

At 7/2/2012 10:03 AM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
>I know nine reasons:
>
>http://www.welcometoportsmouth.co.uk/pompey.html
>
>7 is my favorite, followed by 8. 8, however, makes more sense for "dodging
>Pompey".
>
>
>    - Ships entering Portsmouth harbour make an entry in the ships log *Pom.
>    P.* as a reference to *Portsmouth Point* (this being too long).
>    Navigational charts also use this abbreviation.
>
>    - *La Pompee* was a captured French ship moored in Portsmouth harbour
>    and used for prison accommodation, (captured 1793 and broken up 1817).
>    There is a Yorkshire term pompey for prison or house of correction.
>
>DanG
>
>
>On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > Subject:      Re: dodge Pompey
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > At 6/29/2012 05:22 PM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
> > >Couldn't the reference to the lantern "playing 'dodge Pompey'" simply be a
> > >way of saying the lantern wouldn't work when needed?
> >
> > I suppose so, but aren't we still at a loss as to why "Pompey" and
> > whether there is a relationship to Portsmouth?
> >
> > Joel
> >
> >
> > >Several of the references do seem to imply avoiding danger instead of
> > work,
> > >and they are older.
> > >
> > >DanG
> > >
> > >
> > >On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > > > Subject:      Re: dodge Pompey
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > So a sense related to ships signaling precedes "avoiding work"?
> > > >
> > > > Portsmouth was certainly a significant British naval base (and
> > > > commercial ship port) in the 18th and 19th centuries.  Finding the
> > > > passage in would be important.  A lantern had a shutter (perhaps also
> > > > called a "screen"?; see 1838 quote below).  Would they be "dodged",
> > > > moved to reveal or shut off the beam, in order to signal?  Did "dodge
> > > > Pompey" mean something like "avoid Portsmouth", for some reason or
> > > > purpose, by manipulating a lantern?  ("dodge" sense 1 -- "a. To move
> > > > to and fro, or backwards and forwards ..." [of a person], 1704-; and
> > > > sense 6, "To move (a thing) to and fro, or up and down ...", 1820-,
> > > > close to the earliest "dodge Pompey" quotations below.)
> > > >
> > > > Joel
> > > >
> > > > At 6/27/2012 07:46 AM, Stephen Goranson wrote:
> > > > >I was attempting again to find how Portsmouth, England got the
> > > > >nickname Pompey (OED has it from 1899), and so far, failed again.
> > > > >There are many proposals. Anyway, here are some antedatings (OED has
> > > > >1929) for dodging Pompey (one of which, merely coincidentally,
> > > > >involves the US ship Portsmouth); dodging Pompey may have played
> > > > >some role in the Portsmouth nickname origin--or not. (Green's,
> > > > >unchecked.) They may not all fit OED's dodge v 13 sense (a) to evade
> > > > >work (Naval slang).
> > > > >
> > > > >1836  Ben Brace; the last of Nelson's Agamemnons. Capt. Chamier RN.
> > > > >v. 1 p. 295 (HT)
> > > > >[in rough seas] We tried a signal or two, but it was no use--the
> > > > >lanterns were playing 'dodge Pompey,' and the lights were out before
> > > > >the signal could be made.
> > > > >
> > > > >1838 [1853 ed.] Jack Adams, the mutineer. Capt. F. Chamier, RN. p.145
> > > > col. 1
> > > > >Have I ever played dodge Pompey behind a screen when danger was near?
> > > > >
> > > > >1841 Tom Bowling: A tale of the sea. v.3 (HT)
> > > > >Smith was a regular dodge Pompey
> > > > >
> > > > >1845-1847, published 1958. The Cruise of the Portsmouth, 1845-1847:
> > > > >A Sailor's View of the Naval Conquest of California. Joseph T.
> > > > >Downey, USN; ed. Howard Lamar. Yale UP. (paper)
> > > > >I have found out that dodging Pompey is a good thing, dodging is my
> > > > >trade, and I am as good a dodger as any he [sic] in California, just
> > > > >keep your eyes on their Big Guns, and when you see the flash, fall
> > > > >down where you stand, and don't rose again till you hear the Ball
> > > > >whistle over your heads;....
> > > > >
> > > > >1847 Cruise of the Graceful; or, The Robbers of Carracas, by Captain
> > > > >Barnacle, U.S.N. (C.M. Newell?) p. 5, col. 1 (HT)
> > > > >....I never seed so much _dodging pompey_ in all my sailoring as I
> > > > >have these two weeks past.
> > > > >
> > > > >1880 Captain Tom Drake; or, England's hearts of oak. W. L. Emmett.
> > > > >p. 7   col. 1
> > > > >"I've put a question to you, now I wants the answer; now then, out
> > > > >with it, none of your tack and half tack, and dodging Pompey round
> > > > >the long boat, let's have it...."
> > > > >
> > > > >1899 The log of a sea-waif... Frank T. Bullen, p.292 (GB)
> > > > >They killed time in a variety of ways, making believe to do some
> > > > >work, but principally occupied in "dodging Pompey."
> > > > >
> > > > >Stephen Goranson
> > > > >www.duke.edu/~goranson <http://www.duke.edu/%7Egoranson>
> > > > >
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