"tax" or "penalty"?

[Jonathan Lighter]

Like I said.

JL

On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 4:48 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "tax" or "penalty"?
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I think you just called the Constitution a list of prefab categories, but
> maybe I read you wrong.
>
> DanG
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: "tax" or "penalty"?
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > It isn't exactly a tax and it isn't exactly a penalty. That's the point.
> To
> > say, as the Court did, that it's Constitutional under the taxing power of
> > Congress, isn't quite the same as saying it's a tax precisely like other
> > taxes. It's saying that it's more like a traditional tax levied by
> Congress
> > through the IRS than it is a innovative penalty imposed under the
> commerce
> > clause. Those were the choices.
> >
> > The semantic issue isn't whether the individual mandate is good or
> whether
> > it will work or anything else. The issue is that to label it as simply a
> > "tax" *or* a "penalty" is to cram it unreasonably into a prefab category
> > that will not fir precisely. That is an elementary freshman-level error
> in
> > reasoning.
> >
> > Like every other 5-4 SCOTUS opinion, a different court might have decided
> > differently.  A law isn't deemed Constutional because the Court's had a
> > Revelation from the Realm of Pure Forms; it's Constitutional because
> > a majority of nine of the presumably sharpest legal minds available have
> so
> > decided, based on their professional expertise and interpretation of the
> > arguments. Constitutional is as Constitutional does.
> >
> > To think otherwise is to indulge in another freshman-level error, except
> > this time in the realm political science. The media and the
> > pols encourage these errors on the KISS principle, the bedrock of all
> > politics and journalism.
> >
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> > > Subject:      Re: "tax" or "penalty"?
> > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > It seems to me that, since penalties are unconstitutional and taxes are
> > > constitutional, it's a distinction with a difference, and something
> > worthy
> > > of getting hung up on.
> > >
> > > DanG
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Jonathan Lighter <
> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > Subject:      "tax" or "penalty"?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Every commentator I've seen on TV (and I watch a hell of a lot),
> >  whether
> > > > right or left, pol or journo, expert or otherwise, is passionately
> hung
> > > up
> > > > on the question of whether the inidividual mandate is a "tax" or a
> > > > "penalty."
> > > >
> > > > What's remarkable is that *nobody* has been able to utter the simple
> > > truth
> > > > that "It's like a penalty in some ways and like a tax in others."
> > > >
> > > > Is this a political, a journalistic, a semantic, or a brain problem?
> Or
> > > all
> > > > of the above?
> > > >
> > > > OK, don't answer that.  But the point is, in media journalism, don't
> > > > address the issue if you can address the label instead.
> > > >
> > > > JL
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > > truth."
> > > >
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> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
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>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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