yeah, no

[Charles C Doyle]

Fred cites the NY Times Magazine for 14 Aug. 1977--"reported in."  I'm not sure what would qualify as a certain attestation for the first occurrence of an oral quip like that!

Charlie


________________________________________
From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf of Laurence Horn [laurence.horn at YALE.EDU]
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:54 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Jul 20, 2012, at 1:35 PM, Charles C Doyle wrote:

> Who was the philosopher who, responding to a lecturer who declared that two negatives can signify a positive but two positives can never import a negative, muttered, "Yeah, yeah"?
>
> (I just checked my YBQ; it was Sidney Morgenbesser.)
>
> --Charlie

Actually, as far as I know, this has not actually been attested.  I once attributed the anecdote to Morgenbesser, and others "corrected" me, citing Saul Kripke or someone else (and the remark as either "yeah, yeah" or "yeah, right"), but when I tried tracking it down I found it all cites to be apocryphal or at best uncertain.  Does Fred have an actual cite for Morgenbesser?  (It's been claimed, e.g. in a NYT Magazine article some time ago, that Morgenbesser was especially adept at precisely this kind of comeback but that doesn't prove he actually came up with it on a particular occasion.)

LH
>
> ________________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf of Laurence Horn [laurence.horn at YALE.EDU]
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:12 PM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Jul 20, 2012, at 12:58 PM, Sam Raker wrote:
>
>> I don't think the "yeah" is 'empty,' although whether its content is 'semantic' is really a question of, well, semantics. My gut instincts tell me the "yeah" contributes something along the lines of, "I can see how you might think that, but..." or a sarcastic "I can see how YOU might think that, but..."
>>
>> -Sam
>
> i.e. "Yeah, right.  No,…"?
>
> LH
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: Charles C Doyle <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
>>> Date: July 20, 2012 12:21:01 PM EDT
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: yeah, no
>>> Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       Charles C Doyle <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
>>> Subject:      Re: yeah, no
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> And, of course, there's the immortal "Yes, we have no bananas . . . ."
>>>
>>> --Charlie
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf of Joel S. Berson [Berson at ATT.NET]
>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 12:12 PM
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> At 7/20/2012 12:02 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>> Ben's links show just how complex "Yeah, no" really is.  There's more than
>>>> one kind.
>>>
>>> And he's not even including the Japanese response to a question posed
>>> in the negative.  Which I as a non-native don't understand too.
>>>
>>> Joel
>>>
>>>
>>>> JL
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>>>> Subject:      Re: yeah, no
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 9:28 AM, Charles C Doyle wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Isn't introductory "Yeah" sometimes semantically empty--just a filler
>>>>> like "Hmm"?  Or perhaps signifying merely '+ politness'?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Charlie
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe sometimes, but not obviously in Jon's example (which isn't unique),
>>>>> where a simple "No, you're right" would strike me as a bit odd.  I confess
>>>>> that as a non-native "Yeah, no" speaker, I'm not sure I have a handle on
>>>>> what it's doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> LH
>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf of
>>>>> Jonathan Lighter [wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM]
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 9:05 AM
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There it seems to mean, "Yes indeed, and no, I wouldn't think of
>>>>>> contradicting you."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JL
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Jonathan Lighter <
>>>>> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Former NYPD detective on CNN today: "Yeah, no, you're right!"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JL
>>>>>>
>
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