any clues

[Garson O'Toole]

Jon Lighter probably has valuable material in his files. I would
certainly look in Green's Dictionary of Slang but I do not have ready
access to it.

The New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English
(2006) has an entry with start date of 1929 and cites beginning in
2000:

pier six brawl     noun
an all-out brawl      US. 1929

I was unable to find the phrase in the OED.
Sam Clements indicates that he has found a cite in 1928. Here is a cite in 1926:

Cite: 1926 October 14, The Brooklyn Daily Eagle, British Welter
Defeats Darden At Mitchel Field, Page A3, Column 3, Brooklyn New York.
(Old Fulton)

[Begin excerpt]
Wilson Yarco, 156 pounds, of Oyster Bay and Arthur Lummy. 150 pounds,
of Rockville Center, engaged in a regular Pier 6 brawl, with Yarco
getting the nod of the Judges at the end of six frantic frames. It was
slambang all the way, with both boys trying to knock each other's head
off with a single punch.
[End excerpt]

Below is a citation that may provide some evidence about the etymology.

Cite: 1941 December 11, Oswego Palladium-Times Suggests Double
Daylight Saving by Hugh Fullerton, Jr. [Wide Words Sports Columnist],
Page 13, Column 7, Oswego, New York. (Old Fulton) [Remark: Date is
difficult to read; The December 11 dateline on the article is legible;
1941 is year given in database; December 11, 1941 is a Thursday and
Thursday is legible]

[Begin excerpt]
Ever hear of a Pier Six brawl in tennis? Well, what used to be Pier 6,
Tompkinsville, Staten Island, has been turned into a recreation center
and a couple of major indoor tennis events may be held here.
[End excerpt]

There are several caveats: The author may not know the correct
etymology. The interpretation he seems to suggest may be based on a
coincidental name: Pier Six. This article appeared in 1941, i.e., many
years after 1926 when the phrase was already in circulation.

Please check for typos,
Garson

On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 12:16 AM, George Thompson
<george.thompson at nyu.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: any clues
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> My father used this expression frequently.  He was a Brooklyn Irisher -- or
> semi-Irish, perhaps -- born in 1894, and worked in the 1910 & 1920s as a
> merchant seaman, including sessions in Vannie Higgins' rum-fleet.  He was
> not unacquainted with the low-life in NYC in that era.
> Father associated the phrase with the Pier 6 on the New York City
> waterfront, I suppose the Brooklyn side of the harbor, but perhaps the
> Manhattan side.
>
> GAT
>
> On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 6:27 PM, <sclements at neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Love to see your earliest hockey cite.
>>
>> Using newsperarchive quickly, 1928, boxing, pier 6.  From then until 1939,
>> 132 hits, most boxing, some baseball.  but not all were pier 6.  I saw pier
>> 8, pier 28,
>>
>> Sam Clements
>> ---- David Barnhart <dbarnhart at HIGHLANDS.COM> wrote:
>> > I'm looking for the origin of the expression _pier 6 brawl_.  It seems to
>> > have originated in hockey in Canada.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > barnhart at highlands.com
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> George A. Thompson
> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much since then.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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