too = 'either'

[Laurence Horn]

On Jun 10, 2012, at 8:47 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:

> "And no religion either."
>
> Why would it matter if there's an allusion to Lennon's identical gaffe?

I don't see it as a gaffe, just a somewhat marked variant.  Note that if the "too" precedes negation there's no problem (and no possibility of "either" either):

The Democrats {too/*either} are not helping.
The Democrats are not helping {either/?too}.

It's not that they use "too" when they mean "either".  It's that they use "too" when you'd use "either".  The two words have the same meaning here, just as they do elsewhere.  (They do too.  They don't either.)

And if Lennon's verse doesn't work for you, you'll need to adjust the verse.  These are the best I can do (one version for each variant of "either"), and they're not too catchy:

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to see there
Nothing to live and die for,
And no religion either.

Imagine there's no countries
Or would rather lie there?
Nothing to live and die for,
And no religion either.


LH



> People are using "too" when they mean "either."  I almost reported a
> parallel ex. a few weeks ago, but decided it was probably an idiosyncrasy.
> I don't think it bore any resemblance to the lyrics of "Imagine."
>
> Unfortunately I can't recall it now, but it wa someting like, "And they
> don't do it too."
>
> JL
>
> On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 8:08 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> Subject:      Re: too = 'either'
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> On Jun 10, 2012, at 7:52 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>
>>> You guys don't get it, do you?
>>>
>>> In your exx., "too" still = 'either.'
>>>
>>> JL
>>
>> I still don't see why it's any different from Lennon's, which I also
>> immediately thought of:
>>
>> [no [thing to kill or die for]] and [no religion] too
>> [no Democrats] and [no Republicans] too
>>
>> Yes, in both cases "either" is generally the suppletive negative polarity
>> form that steps in for "too" within the scope of a negative, but if it
>> doesn't, the meaning is still the meaning.  Lennon's excuse was the meter
>> ("and no religion either" doesn't fit nearly as well metrically) and the
>> rhyme--
>>
>> Imagine there's no countries
>> It isn't hard to do
>> Nothing to kill or die for
>> And no religion too
>>
>> --and Ventura's was the allusion to Lennon.
>>
>>
>>
>> LH
>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 7:44 PM, Jim Parish <jparish at siue.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster:       Jim Parish <jparish at SIUE.EDU>
>>>> Subject:      Re: too = 'either'
>>>>
>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Joel S. Berson wrote:
>>>>> At 6/10/2012 04:25 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>>>> CNN promotes Gov. "Jesse Ventura's" scheme to abolish political
>> parties:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Imagine! No Republicans! No Democrats too!"
>>>>> Why can't I understand this as too = 'also'?  "No Democrats also"?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree; it looks to me like an obvious riff on the song "Imagine":
>>>> "Nothing to kill or die for / And
>>>> no religion, too."
>>>>
>>>> Jim Parish
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> truth."
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org