"The last war fought between gentlemen"

Fri Jun 22 21:22:40 UTC 2012

There seem to be no 19th C. exx. of the phr. "war between gentlemen."

Back then the assumption was that all commissioned officers were gentlemen
by definition and all enlisted men were, well, farm boys and (except during
said American Civil War) losers and ne'er-do-wells.

JL

On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Garson O'Toole
<adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "The last war fought between gentlemen"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The 1950 Frank O'Connor quote is intriguing, Jon.
>
> Regarding the footnote number 86 in "The Marble Man: Robert E. Lee and
> His Image in American Society" (1977) by Thomas Connelly. I still have
> not see the contents of the footnote. But the citation below probably
> explains why the author Connelly connected the quote to Virginius
> Dabney. A 1955 article in The Saturday Review by Dabney contained the
> quote and attributed it to Churchill.
>
> This instance matches your original query text exactly. But this cite
> is a couple years after James H. Street published a slightly different
> version of the quote in his book and ascribed the words to Churchill.
>
> Cite: 1955 March 19, The Saturday Review, Appomattox: Epic Surrender
> by Virginius Dabney, Saturday Review Associates, Inc., New York. (Unz)
> [Begin excerpt]
> Just ninety years ago, on April 9, 1865, the conflict which Winston
> Churchill has called "the last war fought between gentlemen" came to
> its close at Appomattox Courthouse.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Here is an earlier "war between gentlemen":
>
> Cite: 1908, The Historians' History of the World by Henry Smith
> Williams, Page 132, Hooper & Jackson, London. (Google Books full view)
> http://books.google.com/books?id=-a8VAAAAYAAJ&q=joust#v=snippet&
> [Begin excerpt]
> In this war between gentlemen, the worst that could happen to the
> beaten party was to go and take their part in the festivities of the
> victors, to hunt and joust in England, and enjoy the courtesy of the
> English; a noble war, doubtless, which crushed none but the villein.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Garson
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Jonathan Lighter
> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
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> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: "The last war fought between gentlemen"
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Irrelevant? Or the source of the  legend?
> >
> > 1950 Frank O'Connor _Leinster, Munster and Connaught_  (London: R. Hale)
> 21
> > [GB snippet]: Behind Whig and Tory in England was the background of a
> Civil
> > War fought by gentlemen. Behind them in Ireland was the background of a
> > Cromwellian conquest carried out with a diabolism for which there are,
> > thank God, few parallels in history.
> >
> > Irishman O'Connor was very widely read.
> > JL
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Jonathan Lighter
> > <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
> >
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> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Subject:      Re: "The last war fought between gentlemen"
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Get ready to laugh:
> >>
> >> 1987 Stephen Birmingham _America's Secret Aristocracy_   (Rpt. N.Y.:
> >> Berkley 1989) 47 [GB snippet]: I like to think it is because World War
> One
> >> was the last war that was fought by gentlemen.
> >>
> >> Birmingham quotes the opinion from somone else.
> >>
> >> JL
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Garson O'Toole
> >> <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>
> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> > -----------------------
> >> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> > Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> >> > Subject:      Re: "The last war fought between gentlemen"
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > Charles C Doyle wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > There's this remarkable statement from the clueless pen of another
> >> > Englishman:
> >> > >
> >> > > <<  I never heard of any ill-feeling between the North and South
> after
> >> > your Civil War; but that was the cleanest and most humane war ever
> >> > fought--a war between gentlemen.  >>
> >> > >
> >> > > From Thomas Russell, "Preparations for Peace in England," _Printers'
> >> > Ink_ 104, no. 6 (8 Aug. 1918): 118.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Yes. We both found that interesting cite, Charlie. There is a similar
> >> > remark from an American in the post that crossed paths with yours.
> >> >
> >> > The 1977 book below has a version of the quote, and it is footnoted
> >> > with the number 86. I cannot read footnote 86 via the GB database. It
> >> > might be useful to determine what the footnote says. Or it might be a
> >> > dead end.
> >> >
> >> > Title: The marble man, Robert E. Lee and his image in American society
> >> > Year: 1977
> >> > Author: Connelly, Thomas Lawrence
> >> > Published: New York : Knopf
> >> > Page: 160
> >> >
> >> > [Begin excerpt]
> >> > To Dabney, the war was also a fight for Virginia soil, and "the last
> >> > war fought between gentlemen" ended at Appomattox Court House. 86
> >> > [End excerpt]
> >> >
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> >>
> >>
> >> --
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