dodge Pompey

[Joel S. Berson]

At 6/29/2012 05:22 PM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
>Couldn't the reference to the lantern "playing 'dodge Pompey'" simply be a
>way of saying the lantern wouldn't work when needed?

I suppose so, but aren't we still at a loss as to why "Pompey" and
whether there is a relationship to Portsmouth?

Joel


>Several of the references do seem to imply avoiding danger instead of work,
>and they are older.
>
>DanG
>
>
>On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > Subject:      Re: dodge Pompey
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > So a sense related to ships signaling precedes "avoiding work"?
> >
> > Portsmouth was certainly a significant British naval base (and
> > commercial ship port) in the 18th and 19th centuries.  Finding the
> > passage in would be important.  A lantern had a shutter (perhaps also
> > called a "screen"?; see 1838 quote below).  Would they be "dodged",
> > moved to reveal or shut off the beam, in order to signal?  Did "dodge
> > Pompey" mean something like "avoid Portsmouth", for some reason or
> > purpose, by manipulating a lantern?  ("dodge" sense 1 -- "a. To move
> > to and fro, or backwards and forwards ..." [of a person], 1704-; and
> > sense 6, "To move (a thing) to and fro, or up and down ...", 1820-,
> > close to the earliest "dodge Pompey" quotations below.)
> >
> > Joel
> >
> > At 6/27/2012 07:46 AM, Stephen Goranson wrote:
> > >I was attempting again to find how Portsmouth, England got the
> > >nickname Pompey (OED has it from 1899), and so far, failed again.
> > >There are many proposals. Anyway, here are some antedatings (OED has
> > >1929) for dodging Pompey (one of which, merely coincidentally,
> > >involves the US ship Portsmouth); dodging Pompey may have played
> > >some role in the Portsmouth nickname origin--or not. (Green's,
> > >unchecked.) They may not all fit OED's dodge v 13 sense (a) to evade
> > >work (Naval slang).
> > >
> > >1836  Ben Brace; the last of Nelson's Agamemnons. Capt. Chamier RN.
> > >v. 1 p. 295 (HT)
> > >[in rough seas] We tried a signal or two, but it was no use--the
> > >lanterns were playing 'dodge Pompey,' and the lights were out before
> > >the signal could be made.
> > >
> > >1838 [1853 ed.] Jack Adams, the mutineer. Capt. F. Chamier, RN. p.145
> > col. 1
> > >Have I ever played dodge Pompey behind a screen when danger was near?
> > >
> > >1841 Tom Bowling: A tale of the sea. v.3 (HT)
> > >Smith was a regular dodge Pompey
> > >
> > >1845-1847, published 1958. The Cruise of the Portsmouth, 1845-1847:
> > >A Sailor's View of the Naval Conquest of California. Joseph T.
> > >Downey, USN; ed. Howard Lamar. Yale UP. (paper)
> > >I have found out that dodging Pompey is a good thing, dodging is my
> > >trade, and I am as good a dodger as any he [sic] in California, just
> > >keep your eyes on their Big Guns, and when you see the flash, fall
> > >down where you stand, and don't rose again till you hear the Ball
> > >whistle over your heads;....
> > >
> > >1847 Cruise of the Graceful; or, The Robbers of Carracas, by Captain
> > >Barnacle, U.S.N. (C.M. Newell?) p. 5, col. 1 (HT)
> > >....I never seed so much _dodging pompey_ in all my sailoring as I
> > >have these two weeks past.
> > >
> > >1880 Captain Tom Drake; or, England's hearts of oak. W. L. Emmett.
> > >p. 7   col. 1
> > >"I've put a question to you, now I wants the answer; now then, out
> > >with it, none of your tack and half tack, and dodging Pompey round
> > >the long boat, let's have it...."
> > >
> > >1899 The log of a sea-waif... Frank T. Bullen, p.292 (GB)
> > >They killed time in a variety of ways, making believe to do some
> > >work, but principally occupied in "dodging Pompey."
> > >
> > >Stephen Goranson
> > >www.duke.edu/~goranson
> > >
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