1947 citing in Archie Comic of "butthole." What did it mean? (UNCLASSIFIED)

Jonathan Lighter wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Tue May 8 23:21:33 UTC 2012


> having in mind some innocuous meaning that is opaque to us.

Not opaque at all; see my previous post.

The meaning *in context* is innocuous by deduction:  "at times"  the job
gets boring.

However, no other example of "butthole" used with a comparable meaning is
traceable - much less in a predicate.  Never and nowhere.

If Montana intentionally used the word, for whatever reason, he was
effectively talking to himself.

Which known meaning of "butthole" attested before 1950 gave rise to an
authentic sense (presumably current among teenagers of Montana's
acquaintance) equivalent to "tedious" witor without hint of impropriety?

Wait! Call on me! Call on me!  If a "butt" is a barrel, you have to "bore"
a hole into it!  So "butthole," adj., means "bore-ing"! Get it!  Teenagers
are so clever!

No! No! This is it.  In basic training, Montana had to fire at targets on
the rifle range. They're backed up by "butts"! So a "butthole" is a wild
shot that hits the butts!  Pretty boring, no?  I mean Z City!

For sure this time!  A target can be called a "butt."  So a butthole is a
hole shot into a target. Obviously. Well, maybe not as boring as complete
miss, but who cares? It's perfectly innocuous!


JL

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Personally, I'm throwing "dead-end" out of court.  Nothing Archie goes on
> to say supports the contention that he thinks his job is long-term and
> without the chance of promotion. Nor could it "get" that way "sometimes."
>
> It's just plain boring.
>
> JL
>
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 6:21 PM, Baker, John <JBAKER at stradley.com> wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       "Baker, John" <JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: 1947 citing in Archie Comic of "butthole." What did it
>> mean?
>>              (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Actually, my view is that Bob Montana most likely intentionally wrote
>> "butthole," having in mind some innocuous meaning that is opaque to us.  I
>> meant that, if there were vandalism, it would have been by his letterer;
>> vandalism at the syndicate is unlikely, and vandalism at the newspapers
>> themselves has been ruled out.
>>
>>
>> John Baker
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
>> Of Victor Steinbok
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 5:50 PM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: 1947 citing in Archie Comic of "butthole." What did it mean?
>> (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>
>> I'm going to have to assume that you know this stuff, because I'm still
>> puzzled as to why a lettering vandalism would have been required if the
>> meaning was slangy but benign. I'll have to defer to your superior
>> knowledge of the situation, but as an average user, I would not have it
>> as my top choice of an explanation.
>>
>> On a related note, I wanted to make an observation that all early
>> instances of "butthole" (so far) appear to imply a hole *with* a
>> butt--or a butted hole--*not* a hole *in* a butt. This would be
>> consistent with the interpretation of Montana's use as "dead-end" or
>> "bottom-of-the-barrel" job. An existence of an identical scatological
>> term (butt, not butthole) would not necessarily be seen as blocking the
>> ordinary use--or we would never have see another kid named John, Richard
>> or William since each has a variant that is used in a vulgar sense.
>> Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
>>
>>     VS-)
>>
>> On 5/8/2012 4:32 PM, Baker, John wrote:
>> >          Note that, if there were vandalism by a letterer, which is the
>> current theory, that would be reflected in the original art, so examining
>> it wouldn't tell us anything.  The family might know if Bob Montana used a
>> letterer, as opposed to lettering the strip himself.
>> > ...
>> >
>> > John Baker
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>> Behalf Of sclements at NEO.RR.COM
>> > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:38 PM
>> >
>> > ...
>> > I'm of the opinion that contacting the family to see if they still have
>> the original for that date might be the only way to find out if the
>> newspaper copies were vandalized(which is my current leaning).
>> >
>> > Sam Clements
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>



--
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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