"the finger" in 1932 Hollywood epic (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Jonathan Lighter]

> some using the index finger, as if pointing to the imaginary out-door

Do we really know that this is recent? What I'm getting at is the
possibility that "give the finger" was originally a baseball expression
*not* referring explicitly to the obscene gesture - which may not have had
a name. Sounds crazy even as I write it, but consider that even today the
related forearm gesture doesn't have a common name!

Of course "the finger" seems obvious (but so does *"the arm").

Anyway, the Italian hypothesis comes not from certain knowledge but from
the conventional   wisdom that the finger gesture descends from Roman days.

Or perhaps it descends from Roman days only through Classical allusions.

JL

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 5:59 PM, Victor Steinbok <aardvark66 at gmail.com>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Victor Steinbok <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "the finger" in 1932 Hollywood epic (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> It's not even the "thumb" now--many umps have their own distinct
> motions, some using the index finger, as if pointing to the imaginary
> out-door.
>
>     VS-)
>
> On 5/14/2012 3:39 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > Great finds, Bill. They enhance our knowledge.
> >
> > The first three seem to involve baseball.
> >
> > The relationship to umps is surprising. Could it be that the writers were
> > thinking of a "You're out!" gesture?  But hasn't that always been "the
> > thumb"?
> >
> > JL
>
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