filthy

Fri Oct 26 15:38:42 UTC 2012

They look good to me, unless the ball was covered with mud in each case.

JL

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: filthy
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Oct 26, 2012, at 9:47 AM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
>
> > To me, there is no problem saying Mo has a "wicked cutter". Adjectival
> use
> > is well documented.
> > DanG
>
> One difference is that "wicked fastball" strikes me as a more likely
> collocation than "filthy fastball", precisely because of the sneakiness
> factor Jon mentions. Sliders, in bending away from the hitter, have this
> property, and Rivera's cutter/cut fastball, which also evaded rather than
> simply overpowering the hitters, certainly did, and hence is not
> infrequently described as a "filthy cutter".  Cf. also the Mets' R. A.
> Dickey and his "filthy knuckler".
>
> I had surmised earlier that the references to the "filthy slider" of Brad
> Lidge dated to his successful days with the Astros, i.e. 2005 or 2006, but
> on closer examination they refer to his second life with the Phillies in
> 2008:
>
> http://sports.yahoo.com/news/filthy-slider-key-brad-lidge-223100895--mlb.html
>
> I found a blog from May 2006 referring to his "wicked bender".  But
> googling "filthy slider" + "2006" does pull up various exx., e.g.
>
> 110. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: March 14, 2006 at 05:09 AM (#1897746)
> I don't know how Julio ever gets hit. He looked fantastic today. 96+ mph
> heat, and a filthy filthy slider.
>
> talksox blog from 11-01-06, re some pitcher named Cox:
> High 90's fastball with a filthy slider. Gets guys to swing and miss and
> gets ground ball outs. One of the steals of the 2006 draft.
>
> and equal time for a Yankees blog, 4 days later, re Joba Chamberlain:
> Word out of HBL is that Chamberlain is throwing 98-99 with a filthy slider
> (and his numbers have been great; he throws hard with good control).
>
> So the positive "filthy [slider]" was well established by 2006.   Let's go
> back in time a bit…
>
> Player Perspective: Zane Carlson
> By John Manuel
> March 2, 2004
>
> Zane Carlson, rhp, Baylor
> Class: Senior. Ht: 5-11. Wt.: 175. Age: 23.
> Major: Health/Fitness.
>
> RHP Zane Carlson appeared in his 92nd career game Saturday against
> Arizona, breaking Matthew Marcom's school record. Carlson already owns the
> Big 12 record in this category. Carlson was a first-team All-Freshman
> selection in 2000, when Baylor coach Steve Smith referred to him as a
> junior version of David Cone because of his filthy slider.
> http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/college/040303carlson.html
>
> Does this count as documented?  How about this one, from a 2000 Houston
> Chronicle article re Randy Johnson:
>
>
> http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl/2000_3224765/astros-face-intimidating-johnson.html
> Astros face intimidating Johnson
> CARLTON THOMPSON Staff
> THU 06/29/2000 Houston Chronicle, Section Sports, Page 1, 2 STAR Edition
>
> PHOENIX - Purely by luck of the draw, the Astros missed Randy Johnson each
> of the nine times they played the Arizona Diamondbacks in 1999.
> It's a good thing. Johnson was 17-9 with a 2.48 ERA en route to his second
> Cy Young Award last season.
>
> ...
> "He's a challenge," Astros center fielder Richard Hidalgo said. "He's
> aggressive all the time, and he's got so much confidence. When you see him,
> you get the feeling that he knows he's very good."
>
> Other than his mid-90s fastball, his filthy slider and his sniper-like
> accuracy, Johnson's aura might be the best thing he has going for him.
>
> LH
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 9:35 AM, Alice Faber <faber at haskins.yale.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Alice Faber <faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU>
> >> Organization: Haskins Laboratories
> >> Subject:      Re: filthy
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Is there an adjectival positive "wicked"? I'm only familiar with the
> >> adverbial, in which case one might say that Mo Rivera has a "wicked
> >> filthy cutter".
> >>
> >> On 10/26/12 8:57 AM, Victor Steinbok wrote:
> >>> I suspect, in these parts, it might be translated as "wicked".
> >>>
> >>>     VS-)
> >>>
> >>> On 10/26/2012 8:45 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >>>> Isn't a slider "filthy" because it's specifically sneaky or tricky
> >> rather
> >>>> than broadly "cool" or "sweet"?
> >>>>
> >>>> JL
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:16 AM, Victor Steinbok
> >>>> <aardvark66 at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I've heard it too, but 1) not in baseball (I don't follow baseball,
> >>>> generally, and only watched the last inning today); 2) it's not
> >>>> documented. I'm not claiming primacy in any way, but the usage should
> be
> >>>> on the record. As for (1), think of the emotionally positive use of
> >>>> "filthy rich".
> >>>>
> >>>>      VS-)
> >>>
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