filthy

[Laurence Horn]

On Oct 26, 2012, at 12:54 PM, Joel S. Berson wrote:

> At 10/26/2012 08:45 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>> Isn't a slider "filthy" because it's specifically sneaky or tricky rather
>> than broadly "cool" or "sweet"?
>
> Wouldn't one then expect to find "filthy knuckleball"?  They're
> sneakier than sliders, particularly to catchers.  And with the
> current notoriety of perhaps the last of the knuckleballers -- Tim
> Wakefield, who retired this year as the then-current oldest active
> player in the major leagues; and R. A. Dickey of the Mets, who led
> the National League in strikeouts and won 20 games.
>
> But Google gives me only 113 hits for "filthy knuckleball" and GBooks none.
>
> Joel

As mentioned, "filthy knuckler" (with reference to R. A. Dickey) is not unattested, but I admit there aren't quite as maybe as might have been predicted.  Perhaps knucklers are frustrating to hit, which isn't quite the same as those cut fastballs and hard sliders, and perhaps part of that is that the latter fool you by looking like what they're not (especially if they're fast enough) while the former don't look like anything else, including the knuckler thrown the pitch before.  Filthy change-ups apparently proliferate; they are supposed to fool the batter by starting out like a fastball.

LH



LH
>
>
>> JL
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:16 AM, Victor Steinbok <aardvark66 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > -----------------------
>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster:       Victor Steinbok <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM>
>> > Subject:      Re: filthy
>> >
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > I've heard it too, but 1) not in baseball (I don't follow baseball,
>> > generally, and only watched the last inning today); 2) it's not
>> > documented. I'm not claiming primacy in any way, but the usage should be
>> > on the record. As for (1), think of the emotionally positive use of
>> > "filthy rich".
>> >
>> >      VS-)
>> >
>> > On 10/26/2012 12:34 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>> > > On Oct 26, 2012, at 12:00 AM, Alice Faber wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> On 10/25/12 11:14 PM, Victor Steinbok wrote:
>> > >>> Commentary from the WS broadcast, on Romo's strike-out pitch: "That
>> > >>> pitch is just filthy!" Yet another migration into positive territory.
>> > >>
>> > >> I've heard that usage for years.
>> > > Same here.  I just tried googling "filthy slider" and got a bunch of
>> > results, including one describing Brad Lidge's out pitch, and that was ages
>> > ago--or at least six or seven years, before he fell off the map.  There are
>> > a few hits from google books, including one from Chad Harbach's _The Art of
>> > Fielding_ (discussed on an earlier thread, for that "not not not crazy"
>> > young woman).  I think the collocation with "filthy slider" is more common
>> > than, say, "filthy fastball" or "filthy two-seamer", although those pitches
>> > are well attested on google as well.
>> > >
>> > > LH
>> > >
>> > >> Unfortunately, Google Advanced Search
>> > >> doesn't seem to have a way to limit a search to a date range, making it
>> > >> hard to present actual evidence!
>> >
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>>
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>
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