"sacred honour", "office of honour"

[Dave Wilton]

Black's Law Dictionary, 8th ed., defines "office of honor" as "an
uncompensated public position of considerable dignity and importance to
which public trusts or interests are confided."

That dictionary does not define "office of profit," but it does "lucrative
office," which is a position that yields a salary or other monetary
compensation.

So "office of honor, Trust, or Profit" does indeed seem to simply mean
"office, official position, either paid or unpaid." It's typical legalese,
spelling out all the possibilities so there is no misinterpretation (e.g.,
"I'm not paid, so it's not a real office and I'm not subject to
impeachment").

Hamilton's Federalist #65, which addresses the impeachment clause, does not
discuss the terms.


-----Original Message-----
From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
Baker, John
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 12:54 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: "sacred honour", "office of honour"

For those of you who don't have their Constitution at hand, the passage in
question reads:  "Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further
than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any
Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party
convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial,
Judgment and Punishment, according to Law."

I believe that "Office of honor, Trust or Profit" means essentially the same
as "office."  Certainly Story's Commentaries, secs. 781 et seq., does not
seem to give any great weight to the terms "honor, Trust or Profit" in this
context.  The words may have been helpful in showing that the
disqualification is not limited to civil offices.  Civil officers alone are
subject to impeachment; Congress cannot impeach a general.

"Office of profit" simply meant that the office was one for pay.  For
example, in Shepherd v. Commonwealth, 1 Serg. & Rawle 1 (Pa. 1814), we see:
"By the Constitution of Pennsylvania, art. 5, sect. 2, it is provided that
the Judges of the Supreme Court and Presidents of the several Courts of
Common Pleas, "shall not hold any other office of profit under this
Commonwealth." This was an office of profit. The commissioners were entitled
to three dollars and fifty cents for every day they acted."

I don't think "sacred honor" meant anything different in 1787 (or in 1776,
when it was used in the Declaration of Independence) than it does today.

Incidentally, both the Declaration and the Constitution spell "honor"
without the u.


John Baker



-----Original Message-----
From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
Joel S. Berson
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 11:08 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: "sacred honour", "office of honour"

I am interested in the meaning of the following terms in and at the time of
the adoption of the US Constitution:

sacred honour

office of trust
office of honour
office of profit

In the Constitution the last three appear in, and apparently only in, the
article dealing with impeachment, where they are listed together and are not
distinguished.  A litle bit of Googling suggests that there were no
definitions because everyone knew what they meant!

"Office of profit" I will guess is one where the revenues are farmed, and a
portion provides compensation for the office-holder.  But that's only a
guess.

Joel

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