"Joker"

[Laurence Horn]

On Apr 23, 2013, at 2:30 PM, W Brewer wrote:

> Dzhokhar Anzorovich Tsarnaev
>
> Dumbing down Wikipedia's IPA, <Dzhokhar> reflects a Russian (approximating
> Chechen) pronunciation [joe-KHAR], <KH> being like German ach-laut;
> anglified [joe-HAR].

Right; I think "dzh" is always [dZ], basically what the IPA does for that affricate.  "Zh" as in "Zhukov" would be the bare (voiced alveopalatal) fricative.  I was wondering about the stress pattern too, so nice to be better informed.  And I had also been thinking about the burden of having to earn a name like Tamerlan(e).  This is precisely why we refrained from naming our son Titus Andronicus (or Atreus) Horn.  Or our daughter Medea.  On the other hand, Attila has always been a popular name for Turks, but then they no doubt see him as a positive force on balance, as the Tsarnaevs and other Tatar heirs no doubt do Tamerlane the Great.

LH



> Russified <Tsarnaev> [tsahr-NA-yeff] variously anglified: [zar-NA-yev],
> even heard an early [Sarnoff]. The patronymic <Anzorovich> identifies the
> alleged father, <Anzor>. Black hat Tamerlan [tammer-LANN] (no doubt yearned
> to live up to his namesake, Tamerlane 1336-1405, <When I rise from the
> dead, the world shall tremble!>)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 1:03 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>> Subject:      "Joker"
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Is "Joker" what they're using because an acquaintance from Dzhokhar
>> Tsarnaev's Cambridge schooldays said that was the nickname that had
>> been bestowed on him?
>>
>> The New York Times (April 20) gives the pronunciation "joe-HARR",
>> which I've been hearing more and more.  (And "tsar-NAH-yev"; and for
>> his brother "tam-arr-lawn" --apparently unaccented).  Seems to me
>> "Joeharr" is just as easy for Anglos to pronounce -- but perhaps less
>> humorous or derogatory (or exalted, for a fan of Batman).
>>
>> And I'm wondering about the "joe" sound.  Is that what corresponds to
>> the sound of the (transliterated, I assume) "Dzho"?  Or is it closer
>> to the French "jeux"?
>>
>> Joel
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org