False facts on Visual Thesaurus

Thu Aug 1 19:18:52 UTC 2013

Neal: Thanks for pointing to your intriguing article on "false facts".
A debate on this topic was presented in a periodical called "The
Kaleidoscope" in 1823. (Your article mentioned Daniel O'Connell
rejecting the phrase "false facts" during a trial, but I was not sure
of the dates for the trial.)

Journal: The Kaleidoscope: or, Literary and Scientific Mirror
Date: February 25, 1823
Section: Correspondence: to The Editor
Page: 276

http://books.google.com/books?id=tzAFAAAAQAAJ&q=%22False+Facts%22#v=snippet&

[Begin excerpt]
Sir,--At club, a little dark-looking gentleman started up in the midst
of a spirited discussion, and declared that nothing but consummate
ignorance could imagine a fact to be false. "Factum, Sir," said he,
"is a thing done, and therefore cannot be false; but, on the contrary,
true to all intents and purposes." "But supposing," rejoined his
opponent, "I should refer you to some of the best speakers and most
elegant writers in the English language for a confirmation of what I
have asserted; where would you be then, Mr. Impudence? I can say, for
your information, that Junius, in a letter to Sir William Draper,
makes use of the expression, "your facts are false;" Lord Chatham also
says "the facts are false;" Addison says, "the facts are false;" Steel
says, "the facts are false;" and I do not hesitate to say that several
other respectable literary characters might be found to prove that,-to
which you deny the possibility of proof."

This was certainly, to me, the most singular topic I had ever heard
discussed; and, as the matter was not fairly disposed of, perhaps you
will indulge me, in the next Kaleidoscope, with a line or two of
Thursday evening,                                 "YOUR IDEAS."
[End excerpt]

Please check for typos. The text was difficult to read in some sections.
Google Books displays some other interesting matches for the phrase
"facts are false".

Garson

On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Baker, John <JBAKER at stradley.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Baker, John" <JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM>
> Subject:      Re: False facts on Visual Thesaurus
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Note that there is a special legal usage of "fact" which is evidenced in the 1688 attestation.  Cases are decided based on the combination of the applicable law and the facts of the particular case.  These are treated differently:  Facts are found by a jury, or by a sitting judge in the absence of a jury, and there is only limited opportunity to appeal findings of fact.  In contrast, rulings of law are always made by a judge and can be appealed to the court of last appeal.
>
> Of course, finders of fact are only human, and they can be wrong (or, as in the 1688 use, corrupt).  Findings of facts may be set aside if clearly erroneous.  In such a case, I suppose they were only findings of "facts."  Similarly, in the 1688 attestation the hypothetical judges are directing the jury to find certain facts, although the judges are aware that those findings are in actuality false.
>
> I'm not a subscriber to Visual Thesaurus, and perhaps my point is already addressed there.  In any case, it seems to me that the legal usage is a specialized sense that does not tell us too much about the phrase "false facts" in non-legal contexts.
>
>
> John Baker
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Neal Whitman
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 6:08 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: False facts on Visual Thesaurus
>
> By subscription, my column at Visual Thesaurus on "false facts" (and true ones, too):
> http://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/dictionary/true-facts-and-false-facts/
>
> From the column, a 1688 attestation of "false fact":
>
> Or, suppose the Judges were corrupt; and directed false Law, or false Fact, or overawed the Jury; or admitted a Party to be a Witness, or Juror (as in Effect it was); That was enough to render the Verdict corrupt....
>
> Also a discussion of an entry in the alt.usage.english FAQ, which argues that "false fact" is no more contradictory than "false teeth". My rebuttal: unlike "fake", "false" has a different meaning when applied to nouns denoting a proposition. E.g. a false claim is not something that appears to be a claim but is really a question or command; it's a claim denoting a proposition that is false.
>
> Neal
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com>
>> Date: July 30, 2013 12:20:05 AM EDT
>> To: Neal Whitman <nwhitman at ameritech.net>
>> Subject: Re: False facts followup
>>
>> And here it is...
>>
>> http://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/dictionary/true-facts-and-false-facts/
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ben
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Neal Whitman <nwhitman at ameritech.net> wrote:
>> OK, thanks for the update.
>>
>> Neal
>>
>> On 7/25/2013 12:28 AM, Ben Zimmer wrote:
>>> We'll run it next week -- most likely Tuesday.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Ben
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Neal Whitman <nwhitman at ameritech.net> wrote:
>>> Hi Ben,
>>>
>>> Any verdict on the false facts column?
>>>
>>> Neal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ben Zimmer
>>> http://benzimmer.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ben Zimmer
>> http://benzimmer.com/
>
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>
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