"screw the pooch"

Wed Dec 18 21:42:14 UTC 2013

It might be useful to look for variant phrasings to trace the shift in
meaning (if such a shift occurred). Here is an instance circa 1977 of
"don't screw the dog with <someone>" that might mean "don't make
mistakes in front of <someone>". The passage also contains "screwing
the dog"

Title: Doctor, Lawyer ...  (ellipsis is in the title)
Author: Collin Wilcox
Page: 14
Publisher: Random House, New York
Year: 1977
(Google Books Snippet; data may be inaccurate)

[Begin extracted text]
“This is Lieutenant Hastings, Ferguson,” Halliday said. “He runs
Homicide, along with Lieutenant Friedman. So, if you'd like some free
advice, don't screw the dog with the lieutenant. In Homicide they've
got nothing but heavy time to hand out. And you can't afford it.”

“Man, who's talking about screwing the dog?” Ferguson protested,
speaking in a soft, plaintive ghetto croon. “I mean, there I was
listening to a little music and entertaining a friend last night, and
the next thing I know, Jesus, you guys're busting down the door. I
mean, Jesus, I was just—”

“You're forgetting about that M-16, Ferguson. Which is ten years,
mandatory Or, for you, maybe a life sentence, since this is your third
fall.”
[End extracted]

Garson

On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: "screw the pooch"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 3:47 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>
>> Presumably STP once did mean the same as FTD, if only for a few unrecorded
>> minutes.
>>
>> JL
>
> I like FTD for "fuck the dog"; it allows us a whole new world of associations for the next time we wire flowers.
>
> LH
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:
>>
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>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>> Subject:      Re: "screw the pooch"
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 2:16 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>
>>>> 1938 (Feb. 19) in Alvah Bessie _Spanish Civil War Notebooks_ (Lexington:
>>>> U.P. of Ky., 2002) 9: _Goldbrick_-- malingerer      _fuck the dog_ -  to
>>>> malinger.
>>>>
>>>> JL
>>>
>>> So are we converging on a supposition that pooch-screwing in its variants
>>> has undergone a reanalysis from 'fuck off' to 'fuck up'?  Or is this a
>>> consistent distinction between "fuck the dog" and "screw the pooch"? Either
>>> way, that's interesting.
>>>
>>> LH
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Douglas G. Wilson <douglas at nb.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>> Poster:       "Douglas G. Wilson" <douglas at NB.NET>
>>>>> Subject:      Re: "screw the pooch"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/17/2013 4:45 PM, Ben Zimmer wrote:
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>>> Poster:       Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>>> Subject:      "screw the pooch"
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wiktionary says this of "screw the pooch":
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone have firmer evidence about the origins of the phrase?
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> No real evidence, just an imperfect memory. Around 1967-70, I heard
>>>>> routinely "f*ck the dog", and I also heard a variety of frivolous
>>>>> equivalents. The only one I remember for sure is the peculiar
>>>>> "intercourse the canine". Other ones surely had "screw" and "mutt" but I
>>>>> can't remember exactly which combinations I heard. I don't remember
>>>>> whether "screw the pooch" was among these or not, but even if it wasn't
>>>>> I suppose it likely occurred on the same basis somewhere, then or
>>>>> earlier. I don't know which of these phrases had how much currency. All
>>>>> of them however meant (as I understood them) "goof off" or "do nothing"
>>>>> rather than "make a blunder" (i.e., = "f*ck off" rather than "f*ck up",
>>>>> some might say).
>>>>>
>>>>> When I heard "screw the pooch" clearly meaning "make a big blunder" or
>>>>> so, much later, perhaps 1990 or so, I remember I was surprised by the
>>>>> meaning but not by the words employed, so I suppose I had heard "screw
>>>>> the pooch" = "goof off" at some point.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Doug Wilson
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>> truth."
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>>
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