Earliest Known Occurrence of the Term "Hot Dog" Pushed Back to 1886, (Corrected Citation)
Joel S. Berson
Berson at ATT.NET
Wed Jan 23 14:44:02 UTC 2013
At 1/23/2013 07:44 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>How could "rolls" "make the night hideous"?
>
>"Calls" might; "roars" would.
>
>Get the idea?
Causing indigestion?
Joel
>JL
>
>On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 7:09 PM, <sclements at neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster: sclements at NEO.RR.COM
> > Subject: Re: Earliest Known Occurrence of the Term "Hot Dog" Pushed
> > Back
> > to 1886, (Corrected Citation)
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > If everyone goes back and reads Fred's complete article, you'll find
> > conflicting evidence for the answers.
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>"Hot stuff," "hot pup," "hot dog," sings out the fiend who
> > carries in one hand a
> > tin cooking arrangement, and on the other arm a basket. He is the wiener
> > wurst
> > fiend. It is his cries that greet you as you enter the theater and
> > regreet you
> > as you come out. He is the creature whose rolls make night hideous, and
> > whose
> > wares make dreams that poison sleep. The luxury came originally from
> > Austria.
> > Wiener means little and generally speaking, the purchaser gets a little the
> > wurst of it. (No diagram of this joke.) Wurst means, in English,
> > sausage; so
> > that when one of these peddlers says wiener wurst to you he means do you
> > want a
> > little sausage. The tin vessel which he carries is divided into two
> > compartments. The upper is filled with water, in which are about a
> > thousand,
> > more or less, skin sausages. In the lower apartment is the alcohol stove
> > that
> > keeps the sausages hot. In the basket he keeps his rye bread and
> > horse-radish.
> > The sausage, sandwiched by two slices of bread !
> > which have been smeared with the horse-radish, make up the wiener wurst,
> > which
> > costs you a nickel. Since Shakespeare asserted that nectar was the food
> > the
> > gods lived on, it has been discovered that wiener wurst is the stuff that
> > fattens dudes. The young men who sell the article are, as a rule, not
> > modest. <<<<<<
> >
> > First it says "He is the creature whose rolls make night hideous" and
> > then contradicts by saying "In the basket he keeps his rye bread and
> > horse-radish. The sausage, sandwiched by two slices of bread !"
> >
> > So, there's bread of some form in the basket. I personally doubt they had
> > rolls as the last reference to two slices of bread is pretty specific.
> >
> > Sam Clements.
> >
> > ---- Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> > > The basket could be for papers.
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 11:49 AM, David A. Daniel <dad at pokerwiz.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster: "David A. Daniel" <dad at POKERWIZ.COM>
> > > > Subject: Re: Earliest Known Occurrence of the Term "Hot Dog"
> > Pushed
> > > > Back
> > > > to 1886, (Corrected Citation)
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > The sausages are in the top part of the cooking thing, in the water,
> > being
> > > > or to be cooked, the alcohol burner being in the lower part. Basket
> > gotta
> > > > be
> > > > for buns. BTW, snub is buns spelled backwards.
> > > > DAD
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > > > Subject: Re: Earliest Known Occurrence of the Term "Hot Dog" Pushed
> > Back to
> > > > 1886, (Corrected Citation)
> > > >
> > > > Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > > > Subject: Re: Earliest Known Occurrence of the Term "Hot Dog"
> > Pushed
> > > > Back
> > > > to 1886, (Corrected Citation)
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > > At 1/22/2013 10:07 AM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
> > > > >Isn't that what the basket was for? The rolls?
> > > > >
> > > > >>the fiend who carries in one hand a tin cooking arrangement, and on
> > the
> > > > >>other arm a basket.
> > > >
> > > > Where did the fiend carry the yet-to-be-cooked wursts? In the "tin
> > > > cooking arrangement"? (And if there were no rolls, I suspect not
> > > > wrapped in wax paper -- see below -- but, like fish and chips, in
> > > > probably-cheaper newspaper -- after all, it was called the "penny
> > press".)
> > > >
> > > > Joel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > <snip>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >DanG
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Jonathan Lighter
> > > > ><wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Earliest Known Occurrence of the Term "Hot Dog"
> > > > Pushed
> > > > > > Back
> > > > > > to 1886, (Corrected Citation)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ---
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good point, Amy. And no rolls are mentioned. Were the dogs sold
> > > > wrapped
> > > > > > in waxed paper?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > JL
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 9:07 AM, Amy West <medievalist at w-sts.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Poster: Amy West <medievalist at W-STS.COM>
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Earliest Known Occurrence of the Term "Hot Dog"
> > > > Pushed
> > > > > > > Back
> > > > > > > to 1886, (Corrected Citation)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ---
> > > > > > > > From: "Shapiro, Fred"<fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
> > > > > > > > Subject: Earliest Known Occurrence of the Term "Hot Dog" Pushed
> > > > Back
> > > > to
> > > > > > > 1886
> > > > > > > > (Corrected Citation)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Tennessee provenance of the term "hot dog" now seems
> > stronger,
> > > > as I
> > > > > > > have found an 1886 citation from that state:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > hot dog (OED 1892)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1886_Nashville Tennessean_ 14 Nov. 9/2 (ProQuest Historical
> > > > > > Newspapers)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Hot stuff," "hot pup," "hot dog," sings out the fiend who
> > carries
> > > > in
> > > > > > > one hand a tin cooking arrangement, and on the other arm a
> > basket.
> > > > > > > <snip>
> > > > > > > > Wiener means little and generally speaking, the purchaser
> > gets a
> > > > > > > little the wurst of it. (No diagram of this joke.) Wurst
> > means, in
> > > > > > > English, sausage; so that when one of these peddlers says wiener
> > > > wurst
> > > > to
> > > > > > > you he means do you want a little sausage. The tin vessel which
> > he
> > > > > > carries
> > > > > > > is divided into two compartments. The upper is filled with
> > water, in
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > are about a thousand, more or less, skin sausages. In the lower
> > > > > > apartment
> > > > > > > is the alcohol stove that keeps the sausages hot.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here's what intrigues me: the equivalence of "wiener" with
> > little.
> > > > Are
> > > > > > > they falsely analogizing by/playing on "wee"? They get "wurst"
> > right,
> > > > so
> > > > > > > something's going on with "wiener." And the mention of "a
> > thousand"
> > > > may
> > > > > > > be exaggeration, but still indicates a small size. So, I'm
> > inferring
> > > > > > > that in this appearance, they're very much like what we still
> > call
> > > > > > > "Vienna sausages".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---Amy West
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
>--
>"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
More information about the Ads-l
mailing list