Earliest Known Occurrence of the Term "Hot Dog" Pushed Back to 1886, (Corrected Citation)

[Laurence Horn]

On Jan 23, 2013, at 9:42 AM, Joel S. Berson wrote:

> Can a food dish using rye bread (and perhaps in preference to rolls)
> and horseradish really originate in Tennessee rather than New York City?
> (Wondered only half seriously.)
>
> Joel

Inspired by this discussion I tried out a hot dog (well, actually hot sausage) on (marble) rye bread with horseradish, all of which I had on hand, along with a bit of sauerkraut, which wasn't explicitly excluded in the 19th century discussion. Not bad at all. (Mercifully, Hillshire Farms does not divulge whether their product contains any bung; what you don't know can't revolt you.)

LH


>
> At 1/22/2013 07:09 PM, sclements at NEO.RR.COM wrote:
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>> If everyone goes back and reads Fred's complete article, you'll find
>> conflicting evidence for the answers.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>"Hot stuff," "hot pup," "hot dog," sings out the fiend
>> who carries in one hand a
>> tin cooking arrangement, and on the other arm a basket.  He is the
>> wiener wurst
>> fiend.  It is his cries that greet you as you enter the theater and
>> regreet you
>> as you come out.  He is the creature whose rolls make night hideous, and whose
>> wares make dreams that poison sleep.  The luxury came originally from Austria.
>> Wiener means little and generally speaking, the purchaser gets a little the
>> wurst of it.  (No diagram of this joke.)  Wurst means, in English, sausage; so
>> that when one of these peddlers says wiener wurst to you he means do
>> you want a
>> little sausage.  The tin vessel which he carries is divided into two
>> compartments.  The upper is filled with water, in which are about a thousand,
>> more or less, skin sausages.  In the lower apartment is the alcohol stove that
>> keeps the sausages hot.  In the basket he keeps his rye bread and
>> horse-radish.
>> The sausage, sandwiched by two slices of bread !
>> which have been smeared with the horse-radish, make up the wiener
>> wurst, which
>> costs you a nickel.  Since Shakespeare asserted that nectar was the food the
>> gods lived on, it has been discovered that wiener wurst is the stuff that
>> fattens dudes.  The young men who sell the article are, as a rule,
>> not modest. <<<<<<
>>
>> First it says  "He is the creature whose rolls make night hideous"
>> and then contradicts by saying "In the basket he keeps his rye bread
>> and horse-radish.  The sausage, sandwiched by two slices of bread !"
>>
>> So, there's bread of some form in the basket.  I personally doubt
>> they had rolls as the last reference to two slices of bread is pretty specific.
>>
>> Sam Clements.
>>
>> ---- Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> > The basket could be for papers.
>> >
>> > JL
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 11:49 AM, David A. Daniel <dad at pokerwiz.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > > -----------------------
>> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > > Poster:       "David A. Daniel" <dad at POKERWIZ.COM>
>> > > Subject:      Re: Earliest Known Occurrence of the Term "Hot Dog" Pushed
>> > > Back
>> > >               to 1886, (Corrected Citation)
>> > >
>> > >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > The sausages are in the top part of the cooking thing, in the
>> water, being
>> > > or to be cooked, the alcohol burner being in the lower part. Basket gotta
>> > > be
>> > > for buns. BTW, snub is buns spelled backwards.
>> > > DAD
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> > > Subject: Re: Earliest Known Occurrence of the Term "Hot Dog"
>> Pushed Back to
>> > > 1886, (Corrected Citation)
>> > >
>> > > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>> > > Subject:      Re: Earliest Known Occurrence of the Term "Hot Dog" Pushed
>> > > Back
>> > >               to 1886, (Corrected Citation)
>> > >
>> > >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > ---
>> > >
>> > > At 1/22/2013 10:07 AM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
>> > > >Isn't that what the basket was for? The rolls?
>> > > >
>> > > >>the fiend who carries in one hand a tin cooking arrangement, and on the
>> > > >>other arm a basket.
>> > >
>> > > Where did the fiend carry the yet-to-be-cooked wursts? In the "tin
>> > > cooking arrangement"? (And if there were no rolls, I suspect not
>> > > wrapped in wax paper -- see below -- but, like fish and chips, in
>> > > probably-cheaper newspaper -- after all, it was called the
>> "penny press".)
>> > >
>> > > Joel
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > > <snip>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >DanG
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Jonathan Lighter
>> > > ><wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Subject:      Re: Earliest Known Occurrence of the Term "Hot Dog"
>> > > Pushed
>> > > > > Back
>> > > > >               to 1886, (Corrected Citation)
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > ---
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Good point, Amy.  And  no rolls are mentioned. Were the dogs sold
>> > > wrapped
>> > > > > in waxed paper?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > JL
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 9:07 AM, Amy West <medievalist at w-sts.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Poster:       Amy West <medievalist at W-STS.COM>
>> > > > > > Subject:      Re: Earliest Known Occurrence of the Term "Hot Dog"
>> > > Pushed
>> > > > > > Back
>> > > > > >               to 1886,        (Corrected Citation)
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > ---
>> > > > > > > From:    "Shapiro, Fred"<fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
>> > > > > > > Subject: Earliest Known Occurrence of the Term "Hot Dog" Pushed
>> > > Back
>> > > to
>> > > > > > 1886
>> > > > > > >           (Corrected Citation)
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > The Tennessee provenance of the term "hot dog" now
>> seems stronger,
>> > > as I
>> > > > > > have found an 1886 citation from that state:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > hot dog (OED 1892)
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > 1886_Nashville Tennessean_  14 Nov. 9/2 (ProQuest Historical
>> > > > > Newspapers)
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > "Hot stuff," "hot pup," "hot dog," sings out the fiend
>> who carries
>> > > in
>> > > > > > one hand a tin cooking arrangement, and on the other arm a basket.
>> > > > > > <snip>
>> > > > > > >    Wiener means little and generally speaking, the
>> purchaser gets a
>> > > > > > little the wurst of it.  (No diagram of this
>> joke.)  Wurst means, in
>> > > > > > English, sausage; so that when one of these peddlers says wiener
>> > > wurst
>> > > to
>> > > > > > you he means do you want a little sausage.  The tin vessel which he
>> > > > > carries
>> > > > > > is divided into two compartments.  The upper is filled
>> with water, in
>> > > > > which
>> > > > > > are about a thousand, more or less, skin sausages.  In the lower
>> > > > > apartment
>> > > > > > is the alcohol stove that keeps the sausages hot.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > Here's what intrigues me: the equivalence of "wiener" with little.
>> > > Are
>> > > > > > they falsely analogizing by/playing on "wee"? They get
>> "wurst" right,
>> > > so
>> > > > > > something's going on with "wiener." And the mention of "a thousand"
>> > > may
>> > > > > > be exaggeration, but still indicates a small size. So,
>> I'm inferring
>> > > > > > that in this appearance, they're very much like what we still call
>> > > > > > "Vienna sausages".
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ---Amy West
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org