between inclusive

[Benjamin Barrett]

Here's an article that is inclusive: http://www.samhsa.gov/data/spotlight/Spot077GirlsDepression2012.pdf
Here's one that has "between the ages of 40 and 49 years"; surely this is inclusive: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22528917
Here's an act of Congress that includes the beginning point but not the endpoint: http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/748/text

Benjamin Barrett
Seattle, WA

On Jun 4, 2013, at 10:37 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at ATT.NET> wrote:

> At 6/4/2013 01:04 PM, Benjamin Barrett wrote:
>> Yes, although we might not agree on the judgments, I think it's
>> clear that the definition of "between" needs to be rewritten to
>> allow the possibility of including the endpoints. I would say that
>> the dollars and patients examples are both inclusive.
> 
> I would say the  "patients between the age of 40 and 50" example
> excludes those of age 50; that is, it is intended to be a 10-year,
> not 11- or 9-year range.  Others may disagree with my interpretation,
> which is perhaps why so many patients die.  In any case, my "between"
> for this example is different from the previous definitions -- it
> includes one endpoint but not the other.
> 
> Joel
> 
> 
>> Benjamin Barrett
>> Seattle, WA
>> 
>> On Jun 4, 2013, at 6:58 AM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> 
>>> If you asked me to pick a number between 1 and 10, I would find that
>>> unclear -- are 1 and 10 possible picks?
>>> 
>>> If you asked me to pick a number from 1 to 10, I would know exactly what
>>> you mean.
>>> 
>>> In other contexts, however, I would have to make a judgment based on
>>> specificity. Your "somewhere between 40 and 50 dollars" is not the same as
>>> "patients between the age of 40 and 50".
>>> 
>>> DanG
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 5:13 AM, Benjamin Barrett
>> <gogaku at ix.netcom.com>wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The OED says about "between": Of the relation of a number, quantity,
>>>> degree, or quality to two others above and below it, or differing from it
>>>> in opposite ways; Intermediate to.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the cites is:
>>>> 
>>>> Between five and six miles from the city.
>>>> 
>>>> If I emphasize the words "between," "five" and "six" just right, I think I
>>>> can make it not include five or six, but generally speaking, I don't think
>>>> that's the case.
>>>> 
>>>> Wiktionary has the same issue:
>>>> 
>>>> In the position or interval that separates (two things), or intermediate
>>>> in quantity or degree.
>>>> 
>>>> This works fine for the following sample sentence:
>>>> 1. John stood between Amy and Mary.
>>>> 
>>>> but less well for 2 and very poorly for 3:
>>>> 2. Let's meet between two and three.
>>>> 3. I want to buy one that costs somewhere between forty and fifty dollars.
>>>> 
>>>> My concern is not merely petty pedantry: I just got called on this very
>>>> issue by my Japanese client who thought my use of "between" was
>>>> inappropriate as a translation of Japanese copy which is inclusive. I
>>>> explained that while the OED agrees with her, I had to nevertheless
>>>> disagree.
>>>> 

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org