"accuser" = 'victim'

[Jonathan Lighter]

In that case it's probably just boilerplate.

JL

On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject:      Re: "accuser" = 'victim'
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 3/18/2013 07:49 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > >"The AP also does not generally identify people who say they were
> victims
> >of sex crimes."
> >
> >I believe part of the reason for this sort of sentence is to emphasize the
> >personhood of victims. Another factor is that not everyone who claims to
> be
> >a victim of a "sex crime" is necessarily a victim or - more significantly
> -
> >the victim of the accused.
>
> Jon, I'm often with you -- but not here.  In addition to Neil's
> points  about the general aspects and the AP wording in particular
> (essentially the same as my sentiments), in this case the statement
> is after accusers were *convicted*.
>
> Joel
>
>
> >JL
> >
> >On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu
> >wrote:
> >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > > Subject:      Re: "accuser" = 'victim'
> > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > On Mar 17, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Neal Whitman wrote:
> > >
> > > > Doing a little bit of searching on "survivor accuser victim," I find
> > > > that if anything, the use of "accuser" instead of "victim" is not
> seen
> > > > as a goodthing, but rather one more obstacle for rape victims to
> > > > overcome. If no one can be called a rape victim until after they have
> > > > accused someone, who has subsequently been convicted, what about all
> the
> > > > rapes that go unreported, or which don't result in an arrest? See,
> for
> > > > example, this blog post complaining about a legislator's move to
> replace
> > > > "victim" with" accuser" in a bill:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://feministphilosophers.wordpress.com/2011/02/05/no-such-thing-as-a-rape-victim/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Having read the earlier message, I was interested to see that the AP
> > > > concluded its story with a similar sentence, which finesses the
> issue by
> > > > putting "victims" inside a presupposition-blocking "say"
> complement:"The
> > > > AP also does not generally identify people who say they were victims
> of
> > > > sex crimes."
> > > >
> > > > Neal
> > >
> > > And imagine the consequences if this practice (replacing "victim" by
> > > "accuser") were extended to murder.  If no one can be called a murder
> > > victim until after they've accused someone of the act, that would
> certainly
> > > do wonders to bring down the murder statistics.
> > >
> > > LH
> > > >
> > > > O n 3/17/2013 12:19 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > > >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > >> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > >> Subject:      Re: "accuser" = 'victim'
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>
> > > >> "Victim" is passive and therefore "demeaning" - or so I've heard.
> She's
> > > not
> > > >> a victim: she's an "accuser" and a "survivor."
> > > >>
> > > >> I notice that your post even uses the passive voice.  Wake up and
> smell
> > > the
> > > >> Kool-Aid!
> > > >>
> > > >> JL
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > >>> -----------------------
> > > >>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > >>> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > > >>> Subject:      "accuser" =3D 'victim'
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> > > >> ------
> > > >>> Yahoo! News's top story (of some past instant):
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Judge finds two Ohio teens guilty of raping girl
> > > >>>
> > > >>> [At the end:]
> > > >>>
> > > >>> "Under its policy of keeping the names of
> > > >>> accusers in rape cases confidential, Reuters has not identified the
> > > girl.=
> > > >> "
> > > >>> My guess is that, although the accused were
> > > >>> convicted, because the article observes that the
> > > >>> "girl"s story was questioned by the defense, she
> > > >>> can only be described as an "accuser", not as an actual "victim".
> > > >>>
> > > >>> *By*Drew Singer | Reuters =96 24 mins ago
> > > >>> [But]
> > > >>> (*Writing* by James B. Kelleher and David Bailey;
> > > >>> editing by Steve Gorman, Xavier Briand and Bill Trott)
> > > >>> [ Emphasis added.]
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Joel
> > > >>>
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> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --=20
> > > >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > > truth."
> > > >>
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