"icon"
Laurence Horn
laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
Mon May 6 18:22:58 UTC 2013
On May 6, 2013, at 10:12 AM, Tyler Schnoebelen wrote:
> At least in COCA, the main kind of icon is indeed a "pop icon"--particularly Paul Simon, Madonna, and Olivia Newton-John, but also "Richard Marx", "Donny and Marie Osmond", and "Michael Jackson". "Rock icon" and "music icon" are also popular.
> You do get rather long modifiers like:
> "Columbia University Teachers College icon William Heard Kilpatrick", "reluctant generational icon Edie Vedder", "religious conservative icon Pat Robertson", "Liberal establishment icon New York governor nelson Rockefeller" and the possibility that people can have personal icons: "Bradley basketball icon Joe Stowell". You'll find "late environmental icon David Brower", but these more complex noun phrases are fairly rare.
> There are also some interesting conjunctions like "49ers coach and icon Bill Walsh", "AOL founder and icon Steve Case".
Also appears in adjectival form: "iconic coach Bill Walsh", "iconic pop star", etc. Googling a bit, it appears as though "iconic pop star" uniquely designates the late Whitney Houston, but I'm pretty sure that's not entirely correct, anymore than Joe Paterno cornered the iconic coach market. Maybe it's just that these sobriquets are more likely to be used (immediately?) after the icon's death.
LH
> At any rate, most but not all of the icons mentioned are in music and sports, which go with the whole "pop" idea. But there is a fair thread of politics. Three occurrences of "civil rights icon Martin Luther King, Jr." (that's a lot for COCA), two for "Cuban Revolution/Cuban icon Che Guevara". The line between pop (~fluff) and non-pop (~weighty) requires taking a stance about what matters, which is itself political in nature.
> T
>
>> Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 17:04:22 -0400
>> From: wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
>> Subject: Re: "icon"
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject: Re: "icon"
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> The OED def. needs to be further refined.
>>
>> "The body of Emmett Till" may be a "new kind of icon," but the living
>> Emmett Till, who was not a celebrity, is not describable offhandedly as
>> "Civil Rights icon Emmett Till" except by tone-deaf idiots.
>>
>> No prescriptivism. Just fact.
>>
>> Perhaps the "celebrity" sense needs to be made separate.
>>
>> The following sound perfectly normal (if glib) to me:
>>
>> 1. Baseball icon Willie Mays.
>>
>> 2. Rock icon Elvis Presley.
>>
>> 3. Film icon Marilyn Monroe.
>>
>> 4. Football icon Knute Rockne.
>>
>> 5. Operatic icon Maria Callas.
>>
>> The last one may be pushing the envelope, as would
>>
>> 6. Conducting icon Leonard Bernstein.
>>
>> While celebrities, Callas and Bernstein were not quite "pop" celebrities.
>> Nor are opera and symphonic conducting quite "pop" pursuits.
>>
>> OTOH, the following are more or less ridiculous, more so because "icon"
>> simply does not adequately summarize the person's significance, even (or
>> especially) with a vague generalizing label tacked on:
>>
>> 7. Constitution icon Thomas Jefferson.
>>
>> 8. Depression icon Herbert Hoover.
>>
>> 9. Vietnam War icon Henry Kissinger.
>>
>> 10. Theater icon William Shakespeare.
>>
>> 11. Oratory icon Cicero.
>>
>> 12. Prostitution icon Heidi Fleiss.
>>
>> 13. Murder icon Jack the Ripper.
>>
>> 14. Abolition icon Harriet Beecher Stowe.
>>
>> 14. Religion icon Jesus Christ.
>>
>> And without the nominal label, "icon" becomes thoroughly meaningless, even
>> for Jesus.
>>
>> "Icons" in the sense I'm proposing are popular, successful in conventional
>> fields (and thus almost always wealthy), and just plain fun to know about.
>> These people are not.
>>
>> JL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster: Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
>>> Subject: Re: "icon"
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> In my very humble opinion, I find most of the examples cited meet the
>>> 'revered' criterion.
>>>
>>> Wearing an editor's hat, I would circle 'institutional icons'.
>>>
>>> My prescriptivist nature would argue that the OED is too permissive here,
>>> but I know that is a losing argument in the long run.
>>>
>>> DanG
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 3:51 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole <
>>> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.co=
>>> m
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster: ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject: Re: "icon"
>>>>
>>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> ------
>>>>
>>>> The meaning of icon has changed and broadened in the past half
>>>> century, I think. The OED has the following draft addition.
>>>>
>>>> Draft additions March 2001
>>>>
>>>> A person or thing regarded as a representative symbol, esp. of a
>>>> culture or movement; a person, institution, etc., considered worthy of
>>>> admiration or respect. Freq. with modifying word.
>>>>
>>>> 1952 C. S. Holmes in Pacific Spectator Spring 248/2 =91The Diamond
>>>> as Big as the Ritz=92, the work of a high-spirited young man turning a
>>>> critical eye upon a national icon, satirically fabulizes the American
>>>> Mr. Moneybags.
>>>>
>>>> 1975 Business Week (Nexis) 12 May 74 A large number of freshmen
>>>> Congressmen sympathetic to knocking down institutional icons such as
>>>> the ICC and CAB.
>>>>
>>>> 1980 Christian Sci. Monitor (Electronic ed.) 11 Feb. b11 Defining
>>>> his icons as cultural phenomena, Wolfe devotes a chapter each to the
>>>> spaceship, the city, the wasteland, the robot, and the monster.
>>>>
>>>> 1988 Sci. Amer. Feb. 67/3 Already an icon for young Indian
>>>> intellectuals, the 32-year-old Ramanujan died on April 26, 1920.
>>>>
>>>> 1995 Hispanic Mar. 36/1 An American icon, the pickup truck has
>>>> evolved from its role as a functional, less-than-glamorous work
>>>> vehicle, into the sporty, headline-grabbing image of models like the
>>>> Ford Bronco.
>>>>
>>>> 2000 Sunday Mail (Electronic ed.) 2 Jan., Hollywood's female gay
>>>> icons Jodie Foster, Susan Sarandon and Jamie Lee Curtis.
>>>>
>>>> Here are two examples in which the term icon is linked to Emmett Till.
>>>>
>>>> Title: The Best American Essays 2001
>>>> Page: GB 263
>>>> Editor: Robert Atwan
>>>> Year: 2001
>>>> (Google Books data; Snippet view only; Data may be inaccurate)
>>>>
>>>> [Begin extracted text]
>>>> The body of Emmett Till =97 "his head . . . swollen and bashed in, his
>>>> mouth twisted and broken" =97 became a new kind of icon. Emmett Till
>>>> showed the world exactly what white supremacy looked like. According
>>>> to one report, Till's funeral ...
>>>> [End extracted text]
>>>>
>>>> I have not seen this book on paper. A web page at
>>>> www.betterbookprices.com has a long book description indicating that
>>>> the words above are probably from the influential essay "Exquisite
>>>> Corpse" by Ashraf Rushdy. In the excerpt above the physical
>>>> manifestation of Till in death is labeled "a new kind of icon". This
>>>> use of icon may fit the OED notion of a "representative symbol".
>>>>
>>>> Periodical: Jet
>>>> Date: Jun 20, 2005
>>>> Volume: 107
>>>> Number: 25
>>>> (Google Books full view)
>>>>
>>>> [Begin excerpt]
>>>> Nearly 50 years after Emmett Till's battered body was found in a
>>>> Mississippi river, federal investigators unearthed the Chicago teen's
>>>> casket in hopes of finding clues to a murder that became an icon for
>>>> the brutality of racism and helped galvanize the Civil Rights
>>>> Movement.
>>>> [End excerpt]
>>>>
>>>> Here the murder viewed as a transformative event is labeled an icon.
>>>> To fit the OED analysis one might say that Tills death is a
>>>> "representative symbol" of racism.
>>>>
>>>> The two examples above do not label Till himself an icon, but
>>>> semantics of icon has continued to evolve.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>> Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>> Subject: Re: "icon"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> ------
>>>>>
>>>>> But it isn't, you know, kind of a downer to call somebody a "martyr"
>>>> right
>>>>> there on TV? And isn't that a word favored by Islamic fundamentalist
>>>>> suicide/homicide bombers?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, the associations are all wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Slain Civil Rights victim...." is a definite contender.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, no one is really a "victim" unless they choose to
>>> be=
>>> .
>>>>> They are "survivors." So "slain Civil Rights survivor..." should work.
>>>>>
>>>>> JL
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>>> Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: "icon"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> ------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 5/5/2013 07:54 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>>>>> In today's version, it's "_slain_ Civil Rights icon Emmett Till."
>>>> Usually
>>>>>>> the phrase you hear is "slain Civil Rights leader Dr. Martin Luther
>>>> King,"
>>>>>>> but since Till wasn't a "leader," the only alternative in media
>>>> Inglish is
>>>>>>> "icon."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is exactly why I wondered about a progression (in some people's
>>>>>> and cable networks' minds).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An alternative to "leader" for Emmett Till might be "martyr" (more
>>>>>> honored and significant than simply a "victim"). We all know who the
>>>>>> greatest martyr in human history is. He has become an idol. And
>>>>>> icons have been painted, carved, etc. for him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thus "martyr" to "idol" to "icon".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would take too long - apparently - to tell
>>>> millennials-on-brain-support
>>>>>>> just who Emmett Till was. You know, "a young black teenager
>>> kidnaped=
>>> ,
>>>>>>> beaten, and murdered by white racists in 1955."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Civil Rights icon" is just cooler.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 1:42 AM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>>>>> Poster: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: "icon"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> ------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
>>>>>> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Honestly, I don't think "martyr" or "idol" has anything to do
>>> wi=
>>> th
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Especially* not in the case cited. Victim? Yes. "Icon"?! No!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>>> truth."
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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