a scup; scupping

[George Thompson]

JB asks:

"Are you sure that the "round-about" was part of the scup
apparatus?  The quotation says "Attached to this was a 'round-about'
for the amusement of children ...".  To me this reads like the
"round-about" was a separate device, and the specific reference to
"children" ("for the amusement of") as though the "round-about" was
intended for different riders than the "occupants" of the scup."

Indeed, I don't suppose that the round-about was a part of the contraption
that was called the scup.  I take "attached" to mean "part of the same
concession or enterprise" or maybe "in the same section of the park".

On the other hand, JB's notion that the scup was a (boat-shaped) carriage
that swung back and forth, rather than in a circular motion, has appeal.
Moving the scup by pulling a rope to tug it up above its natural resting
place, releasing the rope and letting the scup rock back and forth until it
came to a rest again sounds more easily rigged than my image of a rope
festooned along the top of a merry-go-round-like contraption and the riders
pulling their scup around in a circle by tugging a section of rope and then
grabbing another section.  Though if 4 or 6 scups were to be hung at equal
intervals from the same frame, and all occupied, then coordinated tugging
might move the scups with enough speed to amuse the riders and make them
feel rewarded for doing the work.  Also, the ropes were said to be attached
to the top of the frame.  Joel's vision would require the ropes to be
attached to the ends of the frame, or off the frame.

We shouldda been there.  Or maybe I'll come upon a more explicit
description.
But in any event, an additional scrap of documentation of the word.

GAT


On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:

> George,
>
> Are you sure that the "round-about" was part of the scup
> apparatus?  The quotation says "Attached to this was a 'round-about'
> for the amusement of children ...".  To me this reads like the
> "round-about" was a separate device, and the specific reference to
> "children" ("for the amusement of") as though the "round-about" was
> intended for different riders than the "occupants" of the scup.
>
> Before reaching this sentence, I imagined a structure with a
> horizontal bar from which hung one or more boat-shaped
> carriers,  oriented parallel to the support bar.  So far much like
> today's simple playground swing.  Attached to the bow and stern are
> ropes, whose upper ends are looped over the support bar and brought
> back to but not attached to the boat.  Thus viewed from the side the
> boat and ropes form a triangle.  Riders pull on the loose end of the
> rope, in alternation, to swing the scup.  (Being a mechanical
> engineering dummy, I suppose there are other arrangements that would work.)
>
> As for etymology, the OED says "< Dutch schop".  One might ponder a
> boat swaying (rolling) from side to side, and the "occupants" losing
> their balance and sliding into the scuppers.  I can visualize two
> boys competing to see who can "scup" the other.  (New York City was a
> rambunctious locale in the 1800s.)
>
> To confuse the situation, the "scup" is also a fish, the porgy (OED
> n2).  Although I suppose the "boat scup" of the swing is not related
> to the "scup boat" used for fishing porgy.
>
> Joel
>
> At 11/18/2013 11:13 AM, George Thompson wrote:
>
>> * The OED has for "scup", noun:*
>> *U.S.*
>> A swing.
>>
>> 1848   J. R. Bartlett *Dict. Americanisms
>> <http://ezproxy.library.nyu.edu:2181/view/Entry/173911?
>> rskey=3yv1FQ&result=1>*,
>>
>> Scup... A New York word.
>>
>> 1849   S. Warner *Wide Wide World
>> <http://ezproxy.library.nyu.edu:2181/view/Entry/173911?
>> rskey=3yv1FQ&result=1>*
>>
>>  xi,   A scup! maybe you don't know it by that name [said Mr. Van Brunt];
>> some..folks call it a swing.
>>  For the verb, it has:
>> (See quot.
>> 1848<http://ezproxy.library.nyu.edu:2181/view/Entry/
>> 173913?rskey=3yv1FQ&result=3&isAdvanced=true#eid23860247>
>> .)
>> 1848   J. R. Bartlett *Dict. Americanisms
>> <http://ezproxy.library.nyu.edu:2181/view/Entry/173913?
>> rskey=3yv1FQ&result=3&isAdvanced=true>*
>> ,   *To Scup*..to swing. Common in New York.
>>
>>
>> Here is a free-range "scup", noun and verb"; in addition, the description
>> is more specific than what the citations in the OED offer:
>>
>> In this same neighborhood were numbers amusing themselves by scupping,
>> boat
>> scups being erected for the purpose, and as they were put in motion by the
>> occupants hauling a rope attached to the top of the frame to which the
>> scup
>> was hung, the exercise was very beneficial, as the rapid passage through
>> the air was also pleasant.  Attached to this was a "round-about" for the
>> amusement of children. . . .
>>      NY Herald, July 30, 1860, p. 1, col. 2
>>
>> This ride sounds like a common carnival ride, these days, rather than what
>> I'd call a swing.  The carnival ride would be motorized, and I can't
>> figure
>> how the riders in the scups could achieve anything like the centrifugal
>> out-swing of the modern rides, while staying within reach of the ropes.
>>  Perhaps this was more like a merry-go-round, with the scups fixed to a
>> revolving platform -- but they are below the frame, not resting on it.
>>
>> The ride was in a park called Jones' Wood, on the East River.
>>
>> There was a rider-propelled merry-go-round sort of ride at Hoboken, about
>> this time.  My impression of that has been, that the riders moved it by
>> kicking against the ground, but perhaps they pulled it around, like this
>> ride.
>>
>> GAT
>> --
>> George A. Thompson
>> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
>> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much since then.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



--
George A. Thompson
Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much since then.

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org