"hedge in the cuckoo"

[Joel S. Berson]

At 9/9/2013 05:40 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole wrote:
>Thanks for sharing that intriguing information, Charlie. Are those
>citations available in a searchable database online?

Charlie didn't tell ADS-L, but he told me (and ESTC did also) that
both are in EEBO.


>The entry for "Wise Men of Gotham" in the 1910 Encyclopaedia
>Britannica included an interesting variant of the tale. The Gothamite
>villagers did not use a hedge to entrap the cuckoo; instead, they
>joined hands in a perimeter surrounding the bird.

This is still a figurative hedge, isn't it?  although the cuckoos are literal.

Joel

>The date for this
>story was not clear in the encyclopedia entry.
>
>http://books.google.com/books?id=3iEqAAAAYAAJ&q=thornbush#v=snippet&
>
>[Begin excerpt]
>As typical of the Gothamite folly is usually quoted the story of the
>villagers joining hands round a thornbush to shut in a cuckoo so that
>it would sing all the year.
>[End excerpt]
>
>Garson
>
>On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Charles C Doyle <cdoyle at uga.edu> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Charles C Doyle <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
> > Subject:      Re: "hedge in the cuckoo"
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Below is from a bit of off-list correspondence with Joel, which
> may be of interest to others.
> >
> > "Pen (or Hedge) the cuckoo" was (or became) one of those
> proverbial impossibilities--like "number the stars in the sky" or
> "carry water in a sieve" or "saw the air" or "make a rope of sand."
> >
> > --Charlie
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Charles C Doyle
> > Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 1:55 PM
> >
> > Hey, Joel--
> >
> > First, I made a mistake:  Greville's poem, beginning "Away with
> these self-loving lads / Whom Cupid's arrow never glads,"  (or
> maybe it's "those self loving lads"--I'm quoting those lines from
> memory), was published prior to the rest of the "Caelica"
> sequence.  The poem appeared in John Dowland's _First Booke of
> Songes and Ayres_, 1597.  Here are the lines in question:  "For
> many run, but one must win, Fooles only hedge the Cuckoo in" (sig L1V).
> >
> > From _Merie Tales of the Made [sic] Men of Gotham_ by "A.B.," 1565:
> >
> > <<On a time the men of Gotam, wold haue pynned the Cockow, that
> she should sing all the yeare and in the myddest of the towne they
> dyd make a hedge (round in compas,) and they had got a Cocow, and
> put her in it and sayde, singe here all the yeare, and thou shalte
> lacke neyther meate nor drincke. The Cocow as soone as shee was set
> wyth in the hedge, flew her waye. A vengeaunce on her sayde they,
> we made not our hedge high ynough.>> (sig. A3v-A4r).
> >
> > So the proverbial phrase does not appear there--though I am
> guessing that it's already proverbial in the Greville poem.
> >
> > I hope this helps!
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Joel S. Berson [Berson at att.net]
> > Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 1:11 PM
> > To: Charles C Doyle
> > Subject: [off-list]  Re: [ADS-L] "hedge in the cuckoo"
> >
> > Charlie,
> >
> > Do you know if the phrase itself is used in either of these?  Either
> > would antedate the OED's two quotations.
> >
> > And one would have to turn up an imprint from the early date -- which
> > may be difficult, since _Merrie Tales of the Mad Men of Gotham_ seems
> > not to appear in ESTC.
> >
> > Joel
> >
> > At 9/9/2013 10:26 AM, Charles C Doyle wrote:
> >>The old tale of the foolish Gothamites' effort to pen the cuckoo was
> >>published in 1565, in _Merrie Tales of the Mad Men of Gotham_, often
> >>attributed to Andrew Borde (1490?-1543).  Greville's poem, which (as
> >>Garson has noted) seems to use the expression proverbially, was
> >>first published (posthumously) in 1633.
> >>
> >>Charlie
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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