Adage: Church is not out 'till the singing's done. (July 12, 1913)

Thu Sep 19 07:49:42 UTC 2013

Here are three more citations.

Information was gathered in 1939 from people who were reminiscing
about experiences in an Army hospital two decades earlier. The words
below were reportedly spoken sometime between 1917 and 1919 and
published in 1940.

[ref] 1940, The History of United States Army Base Hospital No. 22,
Compiled After Twenty Years from Actual Records and the Vivid Memories
of Many of the Personnel by Bern V. Miller, Section: The Other Side of
the Army, Start Page 72, Quote Page 75, Published by Direct Press,
Milwaukee, Wisconsin. (HathiTrust)[/ref]

[Begin excerpt]
'Cholly' McMahon—"Losers push!" "Church ain't over till they quit singing."
[End excerpt]

Below are two citations that are closer in time to key date of March
10, 1976. Fred located an instance of "The opera ain't over until the
fat lady sings" in Dallas Morning News on that day.

In the following excerpt the adage was employed by Lee Arthur who was
a pioneer woman sportscaster reporting for KDKA radio and television
in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. She stated that the expression was used
in Indiana.

[ref] 1974 May, Esquire, Volume 81, Sports by Roger Kahn, (Sports is a
Monthly Department), Start Page 54, Quote Page 56, Published by
Esquire, Inc., New York. (Verified on paper)[/ref]

[Begin excerpt]
The Rangers wore down the Penguins and New York won, four to two. Some
fans deserted the arena in the final minutes. "Why are they going?"
Ms. Arthur asked in pain. "Back in Indiana we used to say, 'The church
ain't over till the singing's through.'"
[End excerpt]

The following excerpt is from an article about the game of dominoes.
The writer's name, Larry L. King, was the same name as the author of
the 1966 citation for this adage in the Dictionary of Modern Proverbs.

[ref] 1975 March, Texas Monthly, Volume 3, Number 3, The Only Game in
Town by Larry L. King, Start Page 71, Quote Page 72, Column 2,
Published by Emmis Communications. (Google Books full view) link
[/ref]

http://books.google.com/books?id=rSwEAAAAMBAJ&q=%22they+sing%22#v=snippet&

[Begin excerpt]
A fat, red-faced, white-haired man who looked like South Boston
politicians I later would know, Mr. Shackelford never panicked.
"Church ain't over 'til they sing," he'd mildly remark while Uncle
Claude attempted to blitz and intimidate him...
[End excerpt]

Garson

On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 9:25 PM,  <sclements at neo.rr.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       sclements at NEO.RR.COM
> Subject:      Re: Adage: Church is not out 'till the singing's done. (July 12,
>               1913)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Great precursors.  You done good.
>
> Sam Clements
>
> ---- "Shapiro wrote:
>> Fantastic discoveries, Garson!  Because of their relation to the celebrated "the opera ain't over till the fat lady sings," these are highly important sayings.
>>
>> Fred Shapiro
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf of ADSGarson O'Toole [adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:40 PM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: Adage: Church is not out 'till the singing's done. (July 12, 1913)
>>
>> There is a family of sayings about singing during the final stage of an event.
>>
>> Church is not out till they sing.
>> Church is not out till the fat lady sings.
>> The opera isn’t over till the fat lady sings.
>> The game is not over till the fat lady sings.
>>
>> This post contains selected citations similar to the first saying on
>> this list. The Dictionary of Modern Proverbs has an entry for "Church
>> is not out till they sing" and the first citation is dated 1966. The
>> precise phrase listed is "But church ain't over till they sing."
>>
>> In 1913 the saying was labeled "old".
>>
>> [ref] 1913 July 12, The Louisiana Planter and Sugar Manufacturer,
>> Volume 51, Number 2, (Issue Start Page 41), Washington (Dateline July
>> 12, 1913), Start Page 45, Quote Page 46, Column 1, Louisiana Planter
>> and Sugar Manufacturer, New Orleans, Louisiana. (Google Books full
>> view) link [/ref]
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=s-koAAAAYAAJ&q=%22church+is+not%22#v=snippet&
>>
>> [Begin excerpt]
>> There is an old saying that "church is not out 'till the singing's
>> done," and with the narrow margin which the Democrats have in the
>> Senate, it is believed that at least the wool and sugar schedules are
>> still in the balance.
>> [End excerpt]
>>
>>
>> [ref] 1913 October 11, The Louisiana Planter and Sugar Manufacturer,
>> Volume 51, Number 15, (Issue Start Page 249), Washington (Dateline
>> October 1, 1913), Start Page 254, Quote Page 255, Column 1, Louisiana
>> Planter and Sugar Manufacturer, New Orleans, Louisiana. (Google Books
>> full view) link [/ref]
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=s-koAAAAYAAJ&q=%22never+out%22#v=snippet&
>>
>> [Begin excerpt]
>> Whether he can secure the return of enough Democrats to block the plan
>> of the Republicans is problematical, but in any event the political
>> pot will be boiling for the next few days, and the old saying that
>> "church is never out 'till the singing's all done" is very apropos in
>> this instance.
>> [End excerpt]
>>
>>
>> [ref] 1937 September 9, N.A.R.D. Journal, Ramblings of a Pill-Roller
>> by E. R. (Pete) Weaver, Page 1418, Column 1, Volume 59, Number 17,
>> Published by National Association of Retail Druggists, Chicago,
>> Illinois. (Verified on paper)[/ref]
>>
>> [Begin excerpt]
>> This meeting to my way of thinking will be recorded in the archives of
>> the National Association as the biggest thing yet to ever happen so
>> far as the pill shops of this nation are concerned. But as I have
>> often said that church ain't over till they sing and to me this
>> meeting in Chicago is the end of a rough and rugged road that has led
>> us through valleys of hardships and bloody conflict…
>> [End excerpt]
>>
>>
>> [ref] 1951 September 28, Springfield Union, Man Like Eisenhower Seen
>> As Key to Victory for GOP, Quote Page 30, Column 3, Springfield,
>> Massachusetts. (GenealogyBank)[/ref]
>>
>> [Begin excerpt]
>> We forgot the old New England axiom, 'Church ain't over till the singin' stops.'
>> [End excerpt]
>>
>>
>> [ref] 1952, Race Your Boat Right by Arthur Knapp, Jr., Chapter 17: The
>> Finish, (Chapter epigraph), Quote Page 247, D. Van Nostrand Company,
>> New York. (HathiTrust)[/ref]
>>
>> [Begin excerpt]
>> "CHURCH AIN'T OUT 'TIL THE SINGIN'."
>>
>> As you approach the finish line just remember that "Church ain't out
>> 'til the singin'." I cannot repeat it too many times, for many a race
>> has been won (and lost) a few yards and even feet from that imaginary
>> tape.
>> [End excerpt]
>>
>> Garson
>>
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>
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