"to roger" -- the Rogerenes and the origin of the verb

[Joel S. Berson]

At 4/27/2014 02:17 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:

>Older than the Rogerenes.
>
>Which makes them even more scandalous.

We can wonder whither we wander, whether "to roger" be older than the
Rogerenes, or not to be.  John Rogers's dates are 1648--1721, earlier
than the OED's 1699 first instance of "roger, v.1."  However, the
related "roger, n.2, 4" ("The penis") dates from [1644].

And we can wonder about the area of origin.  While the 1699 verb is
from the Univ. of Oxf., the earlier 1644 noun is from the Circuit
Court of Northampton, Virginia.  Perhaps not far from William Byrd II
(a 1711 quotation for the verb), whose dates are 1674--1744.  Byrd
was randy in England from 1681 (well, maybe not from age 7) to 1705
(Wikipedia).  Perhaps he brought "to roger" from Northampton to Oxford.

Joel


>JL
>
>
>On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 1:52 PM, David A. Daniel <dad at pokerwiz.com> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       "David A. Daniel" <dad at POKERWIZ.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: Fun and games among the Quakers: "Rogerene",
> >               1768; interdates OED (2010) 1754--1784
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > So, hey! Is this were "to roger" comes from?
> > DAD
> >
> > Subject: Fun and games among the Quakers: "Rogerene", 1768; interdates OED
> > (2010) 1754--1784
> >
> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > Subject:      Fun and games among the Quakers: "Rogerene", 1768; interdates
> > OED
> >               (2010) 1754--1784
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> >
> > You must have read of the vast variety of religions and different
> > persuasions in practice in this country. I heard the other day of a
> > new sect, who call themselves Rogerines, [sic] from their principal,
> > whose name is Roger. They run about stark naked, men and women, and
> > profess to live in the state of primitive innocence. In this country
> > they go into churches and other religious meetings, where they dance
> > about in an extraordinary manner, Billy to Betty, and cry out
> > constantly, "Who can do as we do, and yet be pure and undefiled?"
> > This is a fact; but pray do not read it to any women.
> >
> > 1768 Alexander Mackraby, Letter to Sir Philip Francis, 20 January,
> > Bristol [Pennsylvania].  In Pennsylvania Magazine of History and
> > Biography 11 (1887), 278.  GBooks.
> >
> > The article is titled "Philadelphia Society [sic!] before the
> > Revolution".  Bristol, Penn., is just across the Delaware River from
> > New Jersey, about 22 miles from Philadelphia.  Mackraby wrote "I am
> > at an inn, where I put up on my return from a visit to Mr. Franklyn,
> > governor of the province of Jersey, to whom I was introduced yesterday".
> >
> > "Rogerene" interdates OED3  1754--1784.
> >
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> >
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> >
>
>
>
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