Latest on "negro"

[Laurence Horn]

On Apr 27, 2014, at 8:06 PM, Joel S. Berson wrote:

> At 4/27/2014 07:33 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>
>> An older black sportscaster on CNN (sorry I didn't get his name) mentions a
>> team owner "who used the word 'colored' to me. To me. So you can imagine
>> what he must have said when I wasn't there."
>
> We haven't yet been introduced in this message chain to the owner of
> the Los Angeles Clippers and his alleged words.
>
> Joel

The problem is that Donald Stirling didn't offend anyone by his selection of labels, just by the (rather outrageous) content of his remarks, assuming they were his remarks (he seems mostly to be saying they were taken out of context and don't represent his true feelings, whatever those might be).  I think Stirling used "black(s)" throughout in the excerpts I heard/saw.

LH
>
>
>> I report, you decide.
>>
>> JL
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Jonathan Lighter
>> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > -----------------------
>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> > Subject:      Re: Latest on "negro"
>> >
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Bundy's use of the definite article - as though all "Negroes" are the same
>> > - undoubtedly was a factor in revealing him to be, as a Democrat put it
>> > this morning, an "uber-racist." (To me that means Himmler level, but let it
>> > go.)
>> >
>> > No one I've heard on TV has had the linguistic discernment to mention
>> > Bundy's use of the "'the'-word." They quite clearly feel or believe or
>> > "know" that "Negro" itself is "offensive."
>> >
>> > And don't forget: "persons of color" is respectful, but "colored people" is
>> > offensive. "Colored persons" is, I would think, more offensive yet.
>> >
>> >
>> > JL
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu
>> > >wrote:
>> >
>> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > > -----------------------
>> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > > Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> > > Subject:      Re: Latest on "negro"
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Joel S. Berson wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > At 4/26/2014 11:54 PM, Spanbock/Svoboda-Spanbock wrote:
>> > > >> I thought it was just that as we become accustomed to words, they
>> > > >> become more objectifying? So, we change the approved terminology
>> > > >> from time to time in an effort to keep the meaning clean?
>> > > >> --
>> > > >> Kate
>> > > >
>> > > > I wonder if this has been argued, or discussed, by anyone who has
>> > > > written on the historical evolution of the terms that were used to
>> > > > refer to African-Americans (either by others or by themselves)?
>> > >
>> > > So this would be an instance of the "euphemism treadmill" (named by
>> > > Pinker, but described in much the same terms by Cicero)?
>> > >
>> > > LH
>> > > >
>> > > > One author who examines the history is Patrick Rael, in "Black
>> > > > Identity & Black Protest in the Antebellum North (Chapel Hill:
>> > > > University of North Carolina Press, 2002) and in his Introduction to
>> > > > "African-American Activism before the Civil War: The Freedom Struggle
>> > > > in the Antebellum North (New York: Routeledge, 2008).
>> > > >
>> > > > Joel
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >> On Apr 26, 2014, at 8:01 PM, Wilson Gray wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > > >> -----------------------
>> > > >> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > > >> > Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> > > >> > Subject:      Re: Latest on "negro"
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Jonathan Lighter
>> > > >> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >> Nobody explained why "the 'Negro' word" was bad
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > In like manner, nobody has explained why "African-American" is
>> > "good"
>> > > and
>> > > >> > not simply ridiculous.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > I've decided to go with what's on my birth certificate: "colored,"
>> > > with
>> > > >> > "black" reserved for formal occasions, such as the Census. Like, why
>> > > not?
>> > > >> > I'm even considering punting BE for n[egro]d[ialect], as accurate a
>> > > >> > denomination as any other.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > --
>> > > >> > -Wilson
>> > > >> > -----
>> > > >> > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
>> > > to
>> > > >> > come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> > > >> > -Mark Twain
>> > > >> >
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>> > > >>
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>> > > >
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>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>>
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>
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