Quote family: The works Shakespeare were not written by Shakspeare but by another man of the same name

Sun Aug 17 20:21:14 UTC 2014

Right, but in case I wasn't clear, my question is who the entitled quotation was first used for. BB

On Aug 17, 2014, at 1:12 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> 
> Opinion is still contentiously divided as to whether the same poet composed
> both, and why his name means "The [officially exchanged] Hostage."
> Actually, nobody knows the reason for that.
> 
> The weight of the extensive linguistic evidence is that the texts we have
> were almost certainly written down, and revised in the writing, by
> different people.
> 
> Who presumably bore different names. Most of the time.
> 
> JL
> 
> 
> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 3:55 PM, Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at IX.NETCOM.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: Quote family: The works Shakespeare were not written by
>>              Shakspeare but by another man of the same name
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> I recall reading that the Odyssey and the Iliad weren't written by =
>> Homer, but some other blind poet whose name is unknown. Although that =
>> line was tongue-in-cheek, it appears that modern speculation on his =
>> identity goes back to 1795 =
>> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeric_Question). Which bard was this =
>> meme used for first?=20
>> 
>> Benjamin Barrett
>> Formerly of Seattle, WA
>> 
>> Learn Ainu! https://sites.google.com/site/aynuitak1/home
>> 
>> On Aug 17, 2014, at 8:26 AM, Stephen Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU> wrote:
>> 
>>> Interesting! Here's an apparent use in 1860:=3D0A=3D
>>> "This [argument about a planet discovery] rivals the new discovery =
>> about Sh=3D
>>> akespeare--that the well know plays and poems were not by William =
>> Shakespea=3D
>>> re, but by another person of the same name!"=3D0A=3D
>>> The Spectator, January 14, 1860 p. 38 col. 1 GoogleB=3D0A=3D
>>> =
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=3D3DQi8_AQAAIAAJ&pg=3D3DPA38&dq=3D3D%22bu=
>> t+by+an=3D
>>> =
>> other+*+of+the+same+name%22&hl=3D3Den&sa=3D3DX&ei=3D3DscfwU-CGLciI8gH3xoGY=
>> DA&ved=3D
>>> =
>> =3D3D0CCIQuwUwATgK#v=3D3Donepage&q=3D3D%22but%20by%20another%20*%20of%20th=
>> e%20sam=3D
>>> e%20name%22&f=3D3Dfalse=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> Stephen Goranson=3D0A=3D
>>> http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> ________________=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> Garson:=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> Jonathan Lighter wrote:=3D0A=3D
>>>> "Shakespeare" means many things besides "wanker." That's why=3D0A=3D
>>>> his works are acclaimed. (Or, as seems likely, works written by=3D0A=3D=
>> 
>>>> someone else of the same name.)=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> JL alludes to an old joke that has been applied to Homer and=3D0A=3D
>>> Shakespeare. Here are two exemplars:=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> 1) The Homeric Poems were not written by Homer, but by another =
>> person=3D0A=3D
>>> of the same name.=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> 2) The plays of Shakespeare were not written by Shakspeare but
>> by=3D0A=3D=
>> 
>>> another man of the same name.=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> I was asked to explore the history of this family of quips which =
>> has=3D0A=3D
>>> been connected to Mark Twain, G. K. Chesterton, Lewis Carroll, =
>> Israel=3D0A=3D
>>> Zangwill, Jerome K. Jerome, Aldous Huxley and others.=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> Here are the earliest citations I've found at this point.=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> The spelling "Shakspeare" was used for "Shakespeare" in the =
>> following=3D0A=3D
>>> two excerpts which made it harder to locate in the GB database.=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> [ref] 1868 December, The National Quarterly Review, Volume 19, =
>> Number=3D0A=3D
>>> 35, Article 2: Early Christian Literature, Start Page 23, Quote =
>> Page=3D0A=3D
>>> 33, Edward I. Sears, Editor and Proprietor, New York. (Google =
>> Books=3D0A=3D
>>> Full View) link [/ref]=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> =
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=3D3DXiUAAAAAYAAJ&q=3D3D%22not+written%22#=
>> v=3D3Ds=3D
>>> nippet&=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> [Begin excerpt]=3D0A=3D
>>> This admission of the learned bishop's, that the Apocrypha was
>> not=3D0A=3D=
>> 
>>> written by the apostle John but by an inspired man of that name,=3D0A=3D=
>> 
>>> reminds us forcibly of the Frenchman's criticism on the authorship =
>> of=3D0A=3D
>>> the plays usually attributed to Shakspeare, wherein after a =
>> careful=3D0A=3D
>>> review of the evidence pro and con, he comes to the conclusion =
>> that=3D0A=3D
>>> they were not written by Shakspeare but by another man of the
>> same=3D0A=3D=
>> 
>>> name!=3D0A=3D
>>> [End excerpt]=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> [ref] 1870 May 21, Harper's Bazaar, Volume 3, Meditations Among =
>> the=3D0A=3D
>>> Tombs of the Washingtons by Gail Hamilton, Quote Page 322, Column =
>> 4,=3D0A=3D
>>> Harper & Brothers, New York. (Google Books Full View) link
>> [/ref]=3D0A=3D=
>> 
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> =
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=3D3DDR6NP-RgCfUC&q=3D3D%22not+written+by%=
>> 22#v=3D
>>> =3D3Dsnippet&=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> [Begin excerpt]=3D0A=3D
>>> What have we gained when we have reached the conclusion that the =
>> plays=3D0A=3D
>>> of SHAKSPEARE were not written by SHAKSPEARE, but by another man =
>> of=3D0A=3D
>>> the same name?=3D0A=3D
>>> [End excerpt]=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> Below is the earliest instance I've found in this family of =
>> humorous=3D0A=3D
>>> remarks based on Homer.=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> [ref] 1874, The Shotover Papers, Or, Echoes from Oxford, Volume
>> 1,=3D0A=3D=
>> 
>>> (Special Commemoration Number), Arrowlets, Quote Page 112, (No =
>> date=3D0A=3D
>>> was specified for this issue; the previous issue 6 was dated May =
>> 30,=3D0A=3D
>>> 1874; the next issue 8 was dated October 17 1874) Publisher J.=3D0A=3D
>>> Vincent, High Street, Oxford, England. (Google Books Full View) =
>> link=3D0A=3D
>>> [/ref]=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> =
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=3D3DVKk-AQAAMAAJ&q=3D3D%22not+written%22#=
>> v=3D3Ds=3D
>>> nippet&=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> [Begin excerpt]=3D0A=3D
>>> The other day the witty D.C.L. listened gravely to a long debate =
>> among=3D0A=3D
>>> the dons at the High Table about the authorship of the Homeric =
>> Poems,=3D0A=3D
>>> and wound up the discussion thus: "I am much interested in the =
>> subject=3D0A=3D
>>> now before us, and I have come to the conclusion on hearing your=3D0A=3D=
>> 
>>> arguments that the Homeric Poems were not written by Homer, but
>> by=3D0A=3D=
>> 
>>> another person of the same name."=3D0A=3D
>>> [End excerpt]=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> Here is an example in 1840 of a discussion concerning multiple =
>> Homers=3D0A=3D
>>> without humorous overtones. It is this type of theory that =
>> prompted=3D0A=3D
>>> the comical remarks.=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> [ref] 1840 September, The London Quarterly Review, Volume 66, =
>> Article=3D0A=3D
>>> 2, (Book Review of "The Plains of Troy" by Henry W. Acland),
>> Start=3D0A=3D=
>> 
>>> Page 189, Quote Page 194, Column 1, American Edition Published
>> by=3D0A=3D=
>> 
>>> Jemima M. Mason, New York. (Google Books Full View)=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> =
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=3D3DalQAAAAAYAAJ&q=3D3D%22same+name%22+#v=
>> =3D3Dsn=3D
>>> ippet&=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> [Begin excerpt]=3D0A=3D
>>> In the next place, according to the opinion of divers great=3D0A=3D
>>> scholars--not Germans--for example, Mr. Payne Knight, Bishop=3D0A=3D
>>> Thirlwall, and others--the man who wrote the Odyssey was not the =
>> same=3D0A=3D
>>> man who wrote the Iliad, but another of the same name, who lived
>> a=3D0A=3D=
>> 
>>> long time after Homer I,. and wrote so exceedingly like him that=3D0A=3D=
>> 
>>> almost all the world have confounded them together, like two =
>> single=3D0A=3D
>>> gentlemen rolled into one; and lastly, the same scholars, and
>> many=3D0A=3D=
>> 
>>> others, hold it clear that the man who wrote that book of the =
>> Odyssey,=3D0A=3D
>>> in which the above quoted passage occurs, was neither Homer I., =
>> nor=3D0A=3D
>>> Homer II., but another man again, whom we may properly call Homer =
>> III.=3D0A=3D
>>> [End excerpt]=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> Garson=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D

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