Query (3rd and final try): Origin of "give/have the willies"

Tue Aug 26 20:03:23 UTC 2014

Any connection between Gosport Willie and "the willies" is clearly fanciful.

Who on earth would pluralize the proper name of a murderer in a ballad and
then attach it to the DTs?

HDAS files have a 1980 in precisely that sense, which now seems to be
pretty rare.

JL

On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at IX.NETCOM.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Query (3rd and final try): Origin of "give/have the
> willies"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> A citation I disregarded was "don't go near the Willies" =
> (http://bit.ly/YWxS4z). It's part of a rhyme scheme, but "sillies" seems =
> to more like it was forced to fit "Willies" than the other way around. =
> BB
>
> On Aug 26, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Cohen, Gerald Leonard <gcohen at mst.edu> =
> wrote:
>
> >=20
> >     My thanks for the replies on "give s.o. the willies."  I've done =
> some =3D
> > checking too and have found a possible candidate for the origin =
> "willies", =3D
> > viz. Willie in the Americanized versions of an old English ballad that =
> goes=3D
> > by several names. Wikipedia writes:
> > '"Pretty Polly", "The Gosport Tragedy" or "The Cruel Ship's =
> Carpenter"... i=3D
> > s a traditional English-language folk song found in the British Isles, =
> Cana=3D
> > da, and the Appalachian region of North America, among other places.
> >     'The song is a murder ballad, telling of a young woman lured into =
> the =3D
> > forest where she is killed and buried in a shallow grave. Many =
> variants of =3D
> > the story have the villain as a ship's carpenter who promises to marry =
> Poll=3D
> > y but murders her when she becomes pregnant. When he goes back to sea, =
> he i=3D
> > s haunted by her ghost, confesses to the murder, goes mad and dies.'
> >    The name of the villain is Willie.  He's bad enough in the English =
> ball=3D
> > ad but becomes particularly loathsome in the American versions. Steven =
> Harv=3D
> > ey's_Bound for Shady Grove_, 2000, (pp. 96-97) says:=3D20
> >    '=3D93Come go along with me,=3D94 Willie insists as he leads Polly =
> into the=3D
> > woods, =3D93before we get married some pleasure to see.=3D94  She is =
> reluctant=3D
> > and afraid, bearing that he will lead her =3D93poor body astray.=3D94  =
>        =3D
> >                                                                        =
>    =3D
> >                                                                       =
> =3D20
> >     =3D91There is, I think,... something of corrupted innocence in =
> what Poll=3D
> > y says.  She knows him and knows she cannot stop him. He answers with =
> the m=3D
> > ost chilling stanza in mountain music, a casual, brutal sentiment, the =
> perf=3D
> > ect foil to her na=3DEFvet=3DE9.  =3D93Oh Polly, pretty Polly, =
> you=3D92re guessin=3D
> > =3D92 about right,=3D94 he says,...=3D93I dug on your grave the best =
> part of the =3D
> > night.=3D94=3D92=3D20
> >=20
> >     This guy is a real creep, and it would be wholly appropriate if  =
> his n=3D
> > ame was in fact taken to express a feeling of creepiness and fear.  By =
> this=3D
> > interpretation of course, the DT's would represent a secondary =
> development=3D
> > .=3D20
> >=20
> > Gerald Cohen=3D20
> > ________________________________________
> >=20
> > ADSGarson O'Toole [adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM], Tuesday, August 26, =
> 2014 11:=3D
> > 15 AM, wrote:=3D20
> >=20
> > Gerald Cohen wrote:
> >> So here goes. I've been asked the origin of "willies" as in =
> "give/have
> >> the willies." OED lists it as "Origin unknown."
> >>=20
> >> It's of U.S origin, first attested in 1896. "To give s.o. the =
> willies' is
> >> t o make them nervous.
> >>=20
> >> Would anyone have any idea about the origin of this term/expression?
> >=20
> > In the three citations below I conjecture that "the willies" referred
> > to delirium tremens (DTs).
> >=20
> > A short newspaper item in 1893 described a lawsuit. One newspaper
> > editor named Morris was suing another editor for the large sum of
> > $100,000. Morris believed that he was being defamed because the other
> > newspaperman claimed that 'Mr. Morris had the "willies"'. The full
> > news item given below did not clarify the nature of the "willies". I
> > hypothesize that Morris was being accused of alcoholism and the
> > willies referred to the DTs.
> >=20
> > [ref] 1893 February 6, Cincinnati Post, Hasn't Got "Willies", Quote
> > Page 1, Column 5, Cincinnati, Ohio. (GenealogyBank)[/ref]
> >=20
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > Hasn't Got 'Willies,"
> >=20
> > And He's Hot After His "Esteemed
> > Contemporary."
> >=20
> > CYNTHIANA, KY., Feb. 8 - [Special.] -
> > F.W. Morris, editor of the Times of this
> > city, will bring suit against Editor Rob-
> > erts of the Lexington Leader for defama-
> > tion of character. Editor Roberts in
> > commenting on an article that appeared
> > in the Times states that Mr. Morris had
> > the "willies." The amount of damage
> > that will be asked for is $100,000.
> > [End excerpt]
> >=20
> >=20
> > The following two excerpts are from a news story in 1893 in which two
> > "inebriates" traveled to Staten Island to go fishing. The friends were
> > unaware that a nearby accommodation was a "freak boarding house".
> > During a long walk one inebriate encountered an individual with a
> > frightening appearance and warned his friend.
> >=20
> > The companion suspected that his friend had "the willys", i.e., was
> > experiencing delirium tremens. After encountering more freaks the pair
> > ran away in fear. Ultimately, the two did learn about the existence of
> > the "freak boarding house" and resumed drinking after a short period
> > of abstinence.
> >=20
> > [ref] 1893 October 21, Wade's Fibre & Fabric, Volume 18, Thought They
> > "Had 'Em" (Acknowledgement to New York Herald), Quote Page 419, Column
> > 2, Boston, Massachusetts. (Google Books Full View)[/ref]
> >=20
> > http://bit.ly/1tzPjmP
> > =
> http://books.google.com/books?id=3D3DngwAAAAAMAAJ&q=3D3D+willys#v=3D3Dsnip=
> pet
> >=20
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > Thought They "Had 'em."
> >=20
> > TWO INEBRIATES STARTLED BY THE INMATES
> > OF A FREAK BOARDING HOUSE
> >=20
> > "Vichy and milk," said the tall man with
> > the Roman nose.
> >=20
> > "What!" ejaculated the man with the full
> > beard. "Holy snakes! What's going to
> > happen?"
> >=20
> > "Nothing. That's the reason I'm taking
> > mild drinks. I'm going to be on the safe
> > side. I thought last night it had happened.
> > I think so yet."
> >=20
> > "What - the willys?" asked he of the
> > beard, pouring out a man's dose of old Kain-
> > tuck.
> > [End excerpt]
> >=20
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > "'Run Bob! fo' God's sake run!'
> > "'What's the matter? I asked.
> > "'Don't ask me, but run,' and he tried to
> > get away. I made up my mind he had 'em
> > --you know--the willys. I made him walk
> > along with me. We hadn't gone 10 steps
> > when we saw something coming. It was
> > dressed like a man, but was as thin as a
> > skeleton. It went past us quietly.
> > [End excerpt]
> >=20
> > In the following excerpt from a story published in 1895 a man named
> > Hamilton was attending an uninhibited revelry at midnight with
> > "champagne, blonde heads and flashing lights". A "befuddled idiot at
> > the piano" started to play Mendelssohn's "Consolation" on the piano
> > and Hamilton felt remorse.
> >=20
> > [ref] 1895 October, The University of Virginia Magazine, Hamilton '95
> > by Hiram Thomas, Start Page 12, Quote Page 15, Published by two
> > Literary Societies of the University of Virginia,  Charlottesville,
> > Virginia. (Google Books Full View) link [/ref]
> >=20
> > http://bit.ly/1tFKho3
> > =
> http://books.google.com/books?id=3D3DU-JKAAAAYAAJ&q=3D3Dwillies#v=3D3Dsnip=
> pet&
> >=20
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > He stood dazed.
> >=20
> > What's the matter, Hamilton; got the willies?" asked someone, while a
> > thick voice called out unsteadily, "Drop that ---- ecclesiastical tune
> > and give us something spicy."
> >=20
> > "My God!" gasped Hamilton, "Where am I, and what am I doing?"
> >=20
> > He rushed through the crowd, out of the house and into the street. The
> > cold autumn wind cooled his heated brain and seemed to clear his mind.
> > [End excerpt]
> >=20
> > Garson
>
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