Query (3rd and final try): Origin of "give/have the willies"
ADSGarson O'Toole
adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM
Wed Aug 27 03:00:26 UTC 2014
Based on comments and citations provided by Benjamin, Jerry, WB and JL
I think that the development of a slang association between "the
willies" and "delirium tremens" would be natural; there is a shared
set of denotations and connotations.
Supernatural spirits/creatures: fear, hallucinations, madness
Murderous entities: fear, paranoia
Dancing and coerced dancing: trembling, spasms, uncontrolled motions
Perhaps phrases such as: "I have seen the willies", "the willies have
me", "I am becoming a willie", "save me from the willies" were
shortened to "the willies" or "I have the willies". (You can tell I am
not a linguist, and this is an amateur analysis.)
The citations connecting "the willies" with "the DTs" occurred a few
years before the citations in which "the willies" were connected to
the less extreme state of nervous apprehension. Of course, this might
be an artifact of a limited sample of published instances. But I think
it is plausible that the existence of "the DTs" sense led to the
emergence of "nervous apprehension" sense.
JL wrote: ...the DTs... HDAS files have a 1980 in precisely that
sense, which now seems to be pretty rare.
Here is another citation suggesting that the DTs sense did survive to
modern times:
Year: 1978
Title: Basic Psychiatry for Corrections Workers
Author: Henry L. Hartman
Quote Page 23
Publisher: Charles C. Thomas, Springfield, Illinois
(Google Books Snippet View; data may be inaccurate)
[Begin extracted text]
The first of the alcoholic psychoses to have any significance for
corrections workers is Delirium Tremens (291.0). This is that
alcoholic condition popularly known as DTs, the "shakes", the
"horrors", the "willies", the "heebee-jeebies", the "terrors", the
"screaming meemies", etc. There is almost always a long history of
heavy alcoholic consumption before delirium tremens develops.
[End extracted text]
Garson
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Jonathan Lighter
<wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Query (3rd and final try): Origin of "give/have the willies"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Any connection between Gosport Willie and "the willies" is clearly fanciful.
>
> Who on earth would pluralize the proper name of a murderer in a ballad and
> then attach it to the DTs?
>
> HDAS files have a 1980 in precisely that sense, which now seems to be
> pretty rare.
>
> JL
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster: Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at IX.NETCOM.COM>
>> Subject: Re: Query (3rd and final try): Origin of "give/have the
>> willies"
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> A citation I disregarded was "don't go near the Willies" =
>> (http://bit.ly/YWxS4z). It's part of a rhyme scheme, but "sillies" seems =
>> to more like it was forced to fit "Willies" than the other way around. =
>> BB
>>
>> On Aug 26, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Cohen, Gerald Leonard <gcohen at mst.edu> =
>> wrote:
>>
>> >=20
>> > My thanks for the replies on "give s.o. the willies." I've done =
>> some =3D
>> > checking too and have found a possible candidate for the origin =
>> "willies", =3D
>> > viz. Willie in the Americanized versions of an old English ballad that =
>> goes=3D
>> > by several names. Wikipedia writes:
>> > '"Pretty Polly", "The Gosport Tragedy" or "The Cruel Ship's =
>> Carpenter"... i=3D
>> > s a traditional English-language folk song found in the British Isles, =
>> Cana=3D
>> > da, and the Appalachian region of North America, among other places.
>> > 'The song is a murder ballad, telling of a young woman lured into =
>> the =3D
>> > forest where she is killed and buried in a shallow grave. Many =
>> variants of =3D
>> > the story have the villain as a ship's carpenter who promises to marry =
>> Poll=3D
>> > y but murders her when she becomes pregnant. When he goes back to sea, =
>> he i=3D
>> > s haunted by her ghost, confesses to the murder, goes mad and dies.'
>> > The name of the villain is Willie. He's bad enough in the English =
>> ball=3D
>> > ad but becomes particularly loathsome in the American versions. Steven =
>> Harv=3D
>> > ey's_Bound for Shady Grove_, 2000, (pp. 96-97) says:=3D20
>> > '=3D93Come go along with me,=3D94 Willie insists as he leads Polly =
>> into the=3D
>> > woods, =3D93before we get married some pleasure to see.=3D94 She is =
>> reluctant=3D
>> > and afraid, bearing that he will lead her =3D93poor body astray.=3D94 =
>> =3D
>> > =
>> =3D
>> > =
>> =3D20
>> > =3D91There is, I think,... something of corrupted innocence in =
>> what Poll=3D
>> > y says. She knows him and knows she cannot stop him. He answers with =
>> the m=3D
>> > ost chilling stanza in mountain music, a casual, brutal sentiment, the =
>> perf=3D
>> > ect foil to her na=3DEFvet=3DE9. =3D93Oh Polly, pretty Polly, =
>> you=3D92re guessin=3D
>> > =3D92 about right,=3D94 he says,...=3D93I dug on your grave the best =
>> part of the =3D
>> > night.=3D94=3D92=3D20
>> >=20
>> > This guy is a real creep, and it would be wholly appropriate if =
>> his n=3D
>> > ame was in fact taken to express a feeling of creepiness and fear. By =
>> this=3D
>> > interpretation of course, the DT's would represent a secondary =
>> development=3D
>> > .=3D20
>> >=20
>> > Gerald Cohen=3D20
>> > ________________________________________
>> >=20
>> > ADSGarson O'Toole [adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM], Tuesday, August 26, =
>> 2014 11:=3D
>> > 15 AM, wrote:=3D20
>> >=20
>> > Gerald Cohen wrote:
>> >> So here goes. I've been asked the origin of "willies" as in =
>> "give/have
>> >> the willies." OED lists it as "Origin unknown."
>> >>=20
>> >> It's of U.S origin, first attested in 1896. "To give s.o. the =
>> willies' is
>> >> t o make them nervous.
>> >>=20
>> >> Would anyone have any idea about the origin of this term/expression?
>> >=20
>> > In the three citations below I conjecture that "the willies" referred
>> > to delirium tremens (DTs).
>> >=20
>> > A short newspaper item in 1893 described a lawsuit. One newspaper
>> > editor named Morris was suing another editor for the large sum of
>> > $100,000. Morris believed that he was being defamed because the other
>> > newspaperman claimed that 'Mr. Morris had the "willies"'. The full
>> > news item given below did not clarify the nature of the "willies". I
>> > hypothesize that Morris was being accused of alcoholism and the
>> > willies referred to the DTs.
>> >=20
>> > [ref] 1893 February 6, Cincinnati Post, Hasn't Got "Willies", Quote
>> > Page 1, Column 5, Cincinnati, Ohio. (GenealogyBank)[/ref]
>> >=20
>> > [Begin excerpt]
>> > Hasn't Got 'Willies,"
>> >=20
>> > And He's Hot After His "Esteemed
>> > Contemporary."
>> >=20
>> > CYNTHIANA, KY., Feb. 8 - [Special.] -
>> > F.W. Morris, editor of the Times of this
>> > city, will bring suit against Editor Rob-
>> > erts of the Lexington Leader for defama-
>> > tion of character. Editor Roberts in
>> > commenting on an article that appeared
>> > in the Times states that Mr. Morris had
>> > the "willies." The amount of damage
>> > that will be asked for is $100,000.
>> > [End excerpt]
>> >=20
>> >=20
>> > The following two excerpts are from a news story in 1893 in which two
>> > "inebriates" traveled to Staten Island to go fishing. The friends were
>> > unaware that a nearby accommodation was a "freak boarding house".
>> > During a long walk one inebriate encountered an individual with a
>> > frightening appearance and warned his friend.
>> >=20
>> > The companion suspected that his friend had "the willys", i.e., was
>> > experiencing delirium tremens. After encountering more freaks the pair
>> > ran away in fear. Ultimately, the two did learn about the existence of
>> > the "freak boarding house" and resumed drinking after a short period
>> > of abstinence.
>> >=20
>> > [ref] 1893 October 21, Wade's Fibre & Fabric, Volume 18, Thought They
>> > "Had 'Em" (Acknowledgement to New York Herald), Quote Page 419, Column
>> > 2, Boston, Massachusetts. (Google Books Full View)[/ref]
>> >=20
>> > http://bit.ly/1tzPjmP
>> > =
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=3D3DngwAAAAAMAAJ&q=3D3D+willys#v=3D3Dsnip=
>> pet
>> >=20
>> > [Begin excerpt]
>> > Thought They "Had 'em."
>> >=20
>> > TWO INEBRIATES STARTLED BY THE INMATES
>> > OF A FREAK BOARDING HOUSE
>> >=20
>> > "Vichy and milk," said the tall man with
>> > the Roman nose.
>> >=20
>> > "What!" ejaculated the man with the full
>> > beard. "Holy snakes! What's going to
>> > happen?"
>> >=20
>> > "Nothing. That's the reason I'm taking
>> > mild drinks. I'm going to be on the safe
>> > side. I thought last night it had happened.
>> > I think so yet."
>> >=20
>> > "What - the willys?" asked he of the
>> > beard, pouring out a man's dose of old Kain-
>> > tuck.
>> > [End excerpt]
>> >=20
>> > [Begin excerpt]
>> > "'Run Bob! fo' God's sake run!'
>> > "'What's the matter? I asked.
>> > "'Don't ask me, but run,' and he tried to
>> > get away. I made up my mind he had 'em
>> > --you know--the willys. I made him walk
>> > along with me. We hadn't gone 10 steps
>> > when we saw something coming. It was
>> > dressed like a man, but was as thin as a
>> > skeleton. It went past us quietly.
>> > [End excerpt]
>> >=20
>> > In the following excerpt from a story published in 1895 a man named
>> > Hamilton was attending an uninhibited revelry at midnight with
>> > "champagne, blonde heads and flashing lights". A "befuddled idiot at
>> > the piano" started to play Mendelssohn's "Consolation" on the piano
>> > and Hamilton felt remorse.
>> >=20
>> > [ref] 1895 October, The University of Virginia Magazine, Hamilton '95
>> > by Hiram Thomas, Start Page 12, Quote Page 15, Published by two
>> > Literary Societies of the University of Virginia, Charlottesville,
>> > Virginia. (Google Books Full View) link [/ref]
>> >=20
>> > http://bit.ly/1tFKho3
>> > =
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=3D3DU-JKAAAAYAAJ&q=3D3Dwillies#v=3D3Dsnip=
>> pet&
>> >=20
>> > [Begin excerpt]
>> > He stood dazed.
>> >=20
>> > What's the matter, Hamilton; got the willies?" asked someone, while a
>> > thick voice called out unsteadily, "Drop that ---- ecclesiastical tune
>> > and give us something spicy."
>> >=20
>> > "My God!" gasped Hamilton, "Where am I, and what am I doing?"
>> >=20
>> > He rushed through the crowd, out of the house and into the street. The
>> > cold autumn wind cooled his heated brain and seemed to clear his mind.
>> > [End excerpt]
>> >=20
>> > Garson
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
More information about the Ads-l
mailing list