[Ads-l] Antedating of "Ivy Leaguer"

Thu Dec 4 02:01:11 UTC 2014

LH wrote:
> Makes sense; a 9 (in 1939) might well be read as a 4.  I suspect the =
> "mote-skins" Luckman needed to persuaded to re-don in the penultimate =
> line in the excerpt Garson provides below were actually mole-skins (not =
> to be confused with Moleskines).

LH: Yes, the term appeared at the end of a line and contained a hyphen
break. So the word was "moleskins" of "mole-skins". The error in
transcription was created when I performed OCR on a screen capture.
(The newspapers.com database does not provide text.)

Garson

> On Dec 3, 2014, at 2:29 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole wrote:
>
>> Below is an earlier instance of "ivy leaguers" followed by a tricky
>> faulty citation for "ivy league" in the Newspapers.com database.
>>=20
>> Date: November 22, 1935
>> Newspaper: Alton Evening Telegraph (Alton, Illinois)
>> Article: Football Prophet Comes Up Bravely for Last Round
>> News service: AP
>> Quote Page: 14
>> Database: Newspapers.com
>>=20
>> [Being excerpt]
>> Princeton-Dartmouth -- A couple
>> of undefeated and untied "ivy
>> leaguers" get together.
>> [End excerpt]
>>=20
>>=20
>> Newspapers.com has a citation for "ivy league" with a date of August
>> 10, 1934. This date is based on the metadata in the database.
>> Unfortunately, this date is incorrect. In addition, the problem is not
>> obvious. The scans were probably created from microfilm and the text
>> is degraded. The date is not visible on the image page. The date is
>> also not visible on adjacent pages. Skipping forward to next issue
>> leads to a front page with a clear date of August 16, 1934.
>>=20
>> Great, thinks the naive researcher (in this case, I am the naive
>> researcher). This must be an antedating for "ivy league". But, in
>> truth, the page image order has somehow been scrambled and the August
>> 10, 1934 date is still incorrect.
>>=20
>> The text of the citation below is about a football player named Sid
>> Luckman of Columbia University. This seems fine because Columbia
>> University is in the Ivy League. The story stated that Mr. Luckman
>> recently signed a contract to join the Chicago Bears.
>>=20
>> But according to the sometimes reliable Wikipedia, Luckman was still
>> playing for Columbia in 1936 and did not join the Bears until 1939.
>> This timeline was inconsistent with a 1934 signing date.
>>=20
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Luckman
>>=20
>> If you travel backward through the scans in the Newspapers.com
>> database (instead of forward) you come upon an issue with a date of
>> August 3, 1939. The correct date for the citation is uncertain, but
>> the year is probably 1939.
>>=20
>> I am posting about this citation because the scans and metadata are
>> confusing and will probably mislead future researchers who have not
>> been warned.
>>=20
>> Incorrect Date: August 10, 1934 (Date is not readable in scans and is
>> wrong; correct year is probably 1939 or 1938)
>> Newspaper Name visible in scans: Soda Springs Sun (Soda Springs, =
> Idaho)
>> Newspaper Name in database: Caribou County Sun (Soda Springs, Idaho)
>> Article: Sport Shorts: Luckman Signs
>> Quote Page 7 (Page number is not readable in scans)
>> Column: 3
>> News Service: Released by Western Newspaper Union
>> Database: Newspapers.com
>>=20
>> [Begin excerpt]
>> Sid Luckman, Columbia university's triple-threat half back, has
>> finally decided to play professional football with the Chicago Bears.
>> . . .
>> The Ivy league lad didn't leap at the chance to turn pro. He seemed to
>> take much greater pride in his academic training than in his athletic
>> ability. It took quite a bit of persuasion to get him back in
>> mote-skins, and sighs of relief were distinctly audible when he
>> affixed his signature to a two-year contract.
>> [End excerpt]
>>=20
>> Garson
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 10:43 PM, Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu> =
> wrote:
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header =
> -----------------------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       "Shapiro, Fred" <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
>>> Subject:      Re: Antedating of "Ivy Leaguer"
>>> =
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -----
>>>=20
>>> This particular article includes all the schools we now think of as =
> the Ivy=3D
>>> League except Brown is excluded.  Other articles, going back to the =
> very e=3D
>>> arliest ones on Feb. 7, 1935, do include Brown.  Early proposals for =
> a form=3D
>>> al "Ivy League" sometimes mentioned Army and Navy as well.=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> Nowadays, when the "Ivy League" has such strong social and academic =
> connota=3D
>>> tions, and Ivy League football is not of great importance in the =
> sports wor=3D
>>> ld, we forget that the grouping was originally based on football =
> rivalries =3D
>>> and football policies.=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> Fred Shapiro=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> ________________________________________=3D0A=3D
>>> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf of =
> Lauren=3D
>>> ce Horn [laurence.horn at YALE.EDU]=3D0A=3D
>>> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 11:18 AM=3D0A=3D
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU=3D0A=3D
>>> Subject: Re: Antedating of "Ivy Leaguer"=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> On Dec 1, 2014, at 10:51 AM, Shapiro, Fred wrote:=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>>> Ivy Leaguer (OED 1943)=3D0A=3D
>>>> =3D0A=3D
>>>> 1936 _New York Herald Tribune_ 11 May 22 (ProQuest Historical =
> Newspapers)=3D
>>>  The Ivy Leaguers accounted for only 20 per cent of the I. C. 4-A =
> prizes l=3D
>>> ast year.=3D0A=3D
>>>> =3D0A=3D
>>>> Fred Shapiro=3D0A=3D
>>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> Does the context (i.e. a list of the prizes) make it clear which =
> colleges w=3D
>>> ere taken to be included within that designation?=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> LH=3D0A=3D
>>> =3D0A=3D
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------=3D0A=3D
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org=3D0A=3D
>>>=20
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>=20
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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