[Ads-l] "Downsight"

[Herb Stahlke]

So it's the evening noose?

On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Barbara Need <bhneed at gmail.com> wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Barbara Need <bhneed at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "Downsight"
>
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>
> Except that I have been hearing news with [s] on NPR in recent months.
>
> Barbara
>
> Barbara Need
> Etna, NY
>
> On 29 Dec 2014, at 10:50 PM, Herb Stahlke wrote:
>
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> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Herb Stahlke <hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: "Downsight"
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > Usually phonological alternations, like the American English dark
> > (velarized) /l/ after vowels, what your system represents as "ool," I
> > think, occur automatically.  It doesn't matter if they're in nouns
> > or verbs
> > or a specific list of  words.  But the alternation we've been
> > discussing
> > seems to occur only in the suffix -ese and nowhere else.  So, for
> > example,
> > it doesn't occur in the plurals of vowel final nouns, like "toys."
> >
> > Herb
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 7:11 AM, Tom Zurinskas
> > <truespel at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
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> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> >> Subject:      Re: "Downsight"
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Dear Herb=2C
> >> Please(~z) excuse(~z) me but I surmise(~z) that I don't know what
> >> seams(~z)=
> >> to be the meaning of morphological restrictions(~z) for ending ~s
> >> sound
> >> be=
> >> ing said as ~z.
> >>
> >> Tom Zurinskas=2C Conn 20 yrs=2C Tenn 3=2C NJ 33=2C now FL 12.See how
> >> Englis=
> >> h spelling links to sounds at http://justpaste.it/ayk
> >>
> >>
> >> =20
> >> =20
> >>
> >>
> >>> Date: Sun=2C 28 Dec 2014 23:05:56 -0500
> >>> From: hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM
> >>> Subject: Re: "Downsight"
> >>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>> =20
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> >> -----------------=
> >> ------
> >>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> Poster:       Herb Stahlke <hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM>
> >>> Subject:      Re: "Downsight"
> >>>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> >> ------
> >>> =20
> >>> So we have final fortition=2C looking like final devoicing.  Are
> >>> there
> >>> examples of it happening with /v=2C D=2C Z/ or /b=2C d=2C g/?  The
> >>> only
> >> e=
> >> xamples
> >>> I'm familiar with are /z/ --> /s/=2C and it appears to be
> >>> morphologically
> >>> restricted as well.  I don't hear "fleece" for "fleas" or /kars/ for
> >>> /ka:rz/.  Are there examples beyond the -ese suffix?
> >>> =20
> >>> =20
> >>> Herb
> >>> =20
> >>> On Sat=2C Dec 27=2C 2014 at 11:06 PM=2C Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com
> >>> >
> >> wr=
> >> ote:
> >>> =20
> >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>> -----------------------
> >>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> >>>> Subject:      Re: "Downsight"
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> >> --------
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sat=2C Dec 27=2C 2014 at 10:40 PM=2C Herb Stahlke
> >>>> <hfwstahlke at gmail.
> >> =
> >> com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> pronunciation of -ese words is a shortened vowel with a voiceless
> >>>>> consonant=2C which makes the consonant sound like a fortis instead
> >> of=
> >> a
> >>>> lenis.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> That's the pronunciation that I use. The consonant sounds like a
> >>>> fortis
> >>>> because it *is* a fortis=2C in my idiolect=2C at least.
> >>>>
> >>>> I was in my 50's=2C before I finally flashed on the phonolonical
> >> underp=
> >> inning
> >>>> of "heathen Chinee": a single member of the set=2C {heathen
> >>>> Chinee[z]}.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> -Wilson
> >>>> -----
> >>>> All say=2C "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange
> >>>> complaint
> >> =
> >> to
> >>>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >>>> -Mark Twain
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>
> >>> =20
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> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>                                          =
> >>
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> >>
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>
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