impactful, below-the-line, etc.
Jonathan Lighter
wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Wed Jan 15 17:13:16 UTC 2014
Fred once tried to track down the example that I remembered so clearly. The
print of _Our Army_ was pretty dense, however.
If I had to guess, I'd say that the supposed cite appeared in the mid to
late '30s.
As I recall - and have recalled for forty years - the phrase appeared on a
sign (perhaps a plaque like Truman's) displayed on a first sergeant's desk.
If I'm deluded, this was an early symptom. I neglected to write the words
down because I *assumed* that if actual novelty plaques existed in the
'30s, it wouldn't be too hard to find an antedating.
Surely Stephen or someone else has already reported these:
1942 _Wisconsin State Journal_ (Madison) (April 26) 4 [NewspArch]: "Time
is Short, Let Us Work," say the signs at army headquarters at Baraboo,
where Capt. Spencer Z. Hilliard, adjutant, issues the press passes. Prize
sign, however, also above his desk, is -- "The buck stops here."
1942 _Reno Evening Gazette_ (Oct. 1) [unp.] [NewspArch]: The Buck Stops
Here The buck passing in the Stockton area stops right here as the sign
[i.e., plaque] denotes. Col. A. B. Warfield (above), commandant of the
Lothrop Holding and Consignment depot, with the retired rank of brigadier
general, is the ranking officer in the Stockton area. He has a record of
forty three years in the army and ... was twice wounded in World War I.
You'll note how this evidence (heh-heh) tends to vindicate my recollection.
JL
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu>wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: Stephen Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU>
> Subject: Re: impactful, below-the-line, etc.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The New York Public Library has vol. 1 (1928/9) through vol. 12 (1940)
> [and not later volumes 13-19, ending in 1947], so any appearance of "the
> buck stops here," as reported by Jonathan Lighter in their copies, would
> antedate the 1942 newspaper reference.
>
> Stephen Goranson
> http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/
> ________________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf of
> ADSGarson O'Toole [adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 11:26 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] impactful, below-the-line, etc.
>
> LH wrote:
> > And while Truman certainly popularized "the buck stops here"
> > pledge, did he originate it?
>
> Fred discusses "the buck stops here" in the Yale Book of Quotations:
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> The phrase is now firmly associated with Truman but appears to have an
> older history. The Reno (Nev.) Evening Gazette,1 Oct. 1942, printed a
> photograph of a sign clearly reading the buck stops here on the desk
> of Army Colonel A. B. Warfield. Jonathan Lighter, editor of the
> Historical Dictionary of American Slang, reports that he found these
> words in the periodical Our Army from the early or mid-1930s; the
> exact reference remains untraced.
> [End excerpt]
>
> HDAS has an entry for "pass the buck" on page 282. JL mentioned the
> sense of buck: "an object used to indicate the dealer in poker". I did
> not see instances of "the buck stops here". (The typeface is small. I
> may have missed something.)
>
> Here is an excerpt from the analysis of Ralph Keyes in the Quote Verifier:
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> "The BUCK stops here." This comment is so associated with Harry
> Truman that it's easy to conclude the words came straight from his
> mouth. They didn't. Early in Truman's presidency, a friend of his saw
> a sign on the desk of an Oklahoma prison warden that read, THE BUCK
> STOPS HERE.
>
> This friend had a replica made for the president and gave it to him in
> October 1945. Truman displayed this sign on his desk off and on for
> most of his presidency, and sometimes referred to it in speeches. The
> sign's message became central to Truman's credo. (It plays off the
> expression "pass the buck," which originated among poker players who
> passed a buck knife among themselves to indicate whose turn it was to
> deal.)
> [End except]
>
> Garson
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: impactful, below-the-line, etc.
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Speaking of bucks, there was this in yesterday's Gail Collins op-ed
> column in the Times:
> >
> > ========
> > Christie expressed confidence that the voters would conclude: “Mistakes
> were made; the governor had nothing to do with that, but he’s taking
> responsibility for it.” Here we have an echo of Harry Truman’s announcement
> that “the buck stops here.” However, Christie took the more modern
> approach, which is to make it clear that while you’re responsible, you are
> totally not at fault. The buck that stopped at Christie’s desk was not his
> buck, just an errant piece of currency that wound up in the office because
> of treacherous fools over whom he had no actual control whatsoever.
> > ========
> >
> > I always assumed that the buck that was supposed to stop with Truman
> (according to the sign he mounted on the Oval Office desk that apparently
> remained there at least through Carter's administration, from a web-posted
> photo) is the same buck that gets passed, either in a poker game (to
> indicate whose responsibility the deal rests with) or metaphorically to
> whoever is down the line. This is, according to the lore I'm familiar
> with, a buck handle from a knife when the game was played out west, and in
> any case not a "piece of currency" in the form of a dollar bill. And while
> Truman certainly popularized "the buck stops here" pledge, did he originate
> it?
> >
> > LH
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 15, 2014, at 8:12 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >
> >> Big bucks, not bug bucks.
> >>
> >> This *is* getting serious.
> >>
> >> JL
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 8:43 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> -----------------------
> >>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> >>> Subject: Re: impactful, below-the-line, etc.
> >>>
> >>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> At 1/14/2014 04:54 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >>>>> Am I too tolerant?
> >>>>
> >>>> Of course - unless you're trying to make bug bucks as a motivational
> guru.
> >>>> In that case, the suc - I mean, your clients, will admire you for
> >>>> expressing yourself this way. But the point is only that these
> senses and
> >>>> constructions are not in the OED, regardless of how familiar they may
> be
> >>> in
> >>>> certain circles.
> >>>
> >>> Aha -- you're not criticizing current usage, just the OED. But you
> >>> didn't say what your point was.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> BTW, the cited "attach" might be defined more precisely as 'to bind
> one's
> >>>> hopes or beliefs to.'
> >>>>
> >>>> BONUS: CNN reports today that the company that released pollutants
> into
> >>> the
> >>>> WV water supply is not granting any more live interviews.
> >>>>
> >>>> The phrase used was "They are radio-silent."
> >>>
> >>> That's what one of Chris Christie's minions texed or tweeted or
> >>> emailed or said about other of his minions' not replying to someone's
> >>> complaints or a reporter's request for comment or something. I
> >>> suspect it's in the 1,000-message disclosure.
> >>>
> >>> Joel
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> JL
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>>> -----------------------
> >>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>>> Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: impactful, below-the-line, etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Some of these I don't find repugnant -- impactful; attach
> >>>>> ("individuals attach to fantasies" seems clearly enough reflexive in
> >>>>> the absence of a direct object); power ("ability and influence" are
> >>>>> at least kinds of power); gut (common in casual speech?).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Am I too tolerant?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Joel
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At 1/14/2014 11:56 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >>>>>> Impactful, adj. 'effective and influential'
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "In my work, I've been fortunate to learn from amazingly successful,
> >>>>>> impactful professionals and entrepreneurs."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Share, v. 'to say sincerely or in confidence':
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "I've heard from corporate professionals who share, 'Kathy, I really
> >>> hate
> >>>>>> my job and desperately want to leave. I've been wanting to write a
> >>> book
> >>>>>> and become a motivational speaker for several years now. What's
> your
> >>>>>> advice?' I'll respond, 'OK, great. '"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Below-the-line, adj. 'insufficiently ambitious or optimistic':
> >>>>>> "'Below the line' thinking refers to a particular mindset that
> shapes
> >>> how
> >>>>>> you view the world in a limiting way."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Attach, v. 'to attach oneself'
> >>>>>> "Unsuccessful individuals attach to fantasies that may relieve them
> >>>>>> momentarily of their situational pain but have no basis in reality."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Power, n. 'ability and influence.'
> >>>>>> "Successful people are in touch with their power, and are not afraid
> >>> to
> >>>>> use
> >>>>>> it and express it. They advocate and negotiate strongly...."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Gut, n. 'innermost feelings'
> >>>>>> "Those who doubt themselves, lack trust in their own gut or
> >>> instincts...."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Power gap, n. 'area of weakness or ineffectuality, as in business or
> >>>>>> personal relationships'
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Sure, they acknowledge they have 'power gaps' or blind spots, and
> >>> areas
> >>>>>> that need deep development."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Deep, adj. special
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [See "power gap"]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thought for the day:
> >>>>>> "Successful people ...go with the flow. They follow the trends, and
> >>>>>> embrace them... make bold moves...and won't be waylaid by the
> >>> priorities
> >>>>>> and values of others."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> All of the above (unfortunately not all of it new) is in one handy
> >>> place
> >>>>>> at
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/successful-people--the-8-self-limiting-behaviors-they-avoid-184436770.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> JL
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >>>>> truth."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >>> truth."
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
--
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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