Dating of "a horse apiece"

[paul johnson]

Certainly used in old bar dice game using five dice,  I watched adults
playing in Chicago bars in the '40's
On 1/31/2014 10:04 AM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
> Doesn't the last usage have a more specific meaning of "all square", since
> the two teams won one game each, and by the same score?
>
> DanG
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Hugo <hugovk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Hugo <hugovk at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Dating of "a horse apiece"
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> A philhippic phrase appropriate for this new Chinese year, local to
>> parts of Wisconsin, Michigan and Minnesota, meaning "it doesn't
>> matter", "it's all the same", "six of one, half of dozen of t'other".
>>
>> It's not in the OED. I'm not sure what DARE has now, but in 2000 it had
>> 1980.
>>
>> The phrase dates at least from the late 19th century, as found in the
>> St. Paul (Minnesota) Daily Globe (March 27, 1893):
>>
>> [Begin]
>> "What did Emperor William say to you when you approached him, Kelly?"
>> asked McKenna.
>>
>> "He didn't say a word until I approached him," answered Kelly. "Then
>> he told me to keep quiet because the president of France was listening
>> to our conversation. I didn't care a d--m for the president of France,
>> so I said to William: 'He can't hurt me. Let him listen. It's a horse
>> apiece, for I'm the King of China.' When I saw the Prince of Wales I
>> asked him for a chew of tobacco, and kicked because it wasn't the
>> brand I was used to chewing. He tried to get back at me by saying no
>> man of my nationality and name could talk back to a peer of the realm.
>> I said to him: 'Come off de perch, you want do see?'
>> [End]
>>
>> For some background, the article says 'Workhouse' Kelly was a nearly
>> 60-year-old Irishman who had lived in St. Paul for the previous 20
>> years, spending 90 days to six months of each year in the workhouse.
>> He had been a sailor in the US navy in the 1850s and was "full of
>> yarns".
>>
>> The other two uses I found in Chronicling America are both from the
>> Rock Island (Illinois) Argus. First from May 31, 1899 describing two
>> baseball teams as appearing equal before a match:
>>
>> [Begin]
>> It's a horse apiece. The shake-off occurs today.
>> [End]
>>
>> Second from April 18, 1904, also describing two baseball teams:
>>
>> [Begin]
>> It's a horse apiece now with the Rock Island and Davenport on the
>> ante-season baseball games. Rock Island won yesterday afternoon's
>> exhibition game at Twelfth street park 4 to 3, the same score by which
>> Davenport defeated the local aggregation on the grounds across the
>> river a week previous.
>> [End]
>>
>>
>> http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn90059522/1893-03-27/ed-1/seq-3/#date1=1836&index=2&rows=20&searchType=advanced&language=&sequence=0&words=apiece+horse+It&proxdistance=5&date2=1922&ortext=&proxtext=&phrasetext=it%27s+a+horse+apiece&andtext=&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=1
>>
>>
>> http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn92053934/1899-05-31/ed-1/seq-7/#date1=1836&index=0&rows=20&searchType=advanced&language=&sequence=0&words=apiece+horse+It&proxdistance=5&date2=1922&ortext=&proxtext=&phrasetext=it%27s+a+horse+apiece&andtext=&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=1
>>
>>
>> http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn92053934/1904-04-18/ed-1/seq-7/#date1=1836&index=1&rows=20&searchType=advanced&language=&sequence=0&words=apiece+horse+It&proxdistance=5&date2=1922&ortext=&proxtext=&phrasetext=it%27s+a+horse+apiece&andtext=&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=1
>>
>> Hugo
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

--
"Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no
one was listening, everything must be said again." Gide

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org