ask forgiveness get permission

[ADSGarson O'Toole]

Fred mentioned this saying back in 2010 on the Freakonomics blog, and
some researchers examined the topic at that time. Here is a match in
1846 that I located; however, the phrase was not presented as an
adage:

[ref] 1846, Lives of the Queens of England from the Norman Conquest
with Anecdotes of Their Courts by Agnes Strickland, Volume 9, Chapter
1: Mary Beatrice of Modena, Quote Page 39, Henry Colburn Publisher,
London. (Google Books Full View) link [/ref]

http://books.google.com/books?id=82IBAAAAQAAJ&q=%22than+permission%22#v=snippet&

[Begin excerpt]
"...But, in truth, the cardinal Barberini ... did frankly advise the
duchess of Modena to conclude the marriage at once; it being less
difficult to obtain forgiveness for it after it was done, than
permission for doing it." [2]

[Footnote 2] Earl of Peterborough, in the Mordaunt Genealogies.
[End excerpt]

Charlie found the earliest instance in proverbial form in 1966 and
placed it in the Dictionary of Modern Proverbs.

One important locus of dissemination was "The Reader's Digest" in
1971. Stephen Goranson found this instance.

[ref] 1971 February, Reader's Digest, Humor in Uniform, Quote Page
138, Reader's Digest Association. (Verified with scans)[/ref]

[Begin excerpt]
…the general asked, "Soldier, don't you know you are not supposed to
be using this vehicle for such a purpose?"

  Taking a nervous gulp, the young GI replied, "Yes, sir. But
sometimes forgiveness is easier to obtain than permission."

Capt. David L. Benton III (Fort Sill, Okla.)
[End excerpt]

Garson


On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Charles C Doyle <cdoyle at uga.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Charles C Doyle <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: ask forgiveness get permission
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> =0A=
> The _Dictionary of Modern Proverbs_ (85) gives the form "It's easier to get=
>  forgiveness than permission" from 1966.=0A=
> =0A=
> --Charlie=0A=
> ________________________________________=0A=
> =0A=
> =0A=
> =0A=
> The Yale Book of Quotations notes that "It is easier to get forgiveness tha=
> =3D=0A=
> n permission" appears in Arthur Bloch, Murphy's Law Book Two (1980). =3D0A=
> =3D=0A=
> =3D0A=3D=0A=
> Grace Hopper was notorious, or should be notorious, for taking credit for e=
> =3D=0A=
> xpressions that were around long before her.  Like "bug."=3D0A=3D=0A=
> =3D0A=3D=0A=
> =0A=
> Fred Shapiro=0A=
> =0A=
> =0A=
> =0A=
> The wikiquote entry for Grace Hopper credits here with"It's easier to ask f=
> =3D=0A=
> orgiveness than it is to get permission." (quoted in the U.S. Navy's Chips =
> =3D=0A=
> Ahoy magazine, July 1986)=3D0A=3D=0A=
> I don't see it covered in the archives.=3D0A=3D=0A=
> _Duncanville [TX] Suburban_ 9/24/1981 p 2 col 1"Stewart's Law of Retroactio=
> =3D=0A=
> n: It's easier to get forgiveness than permission."=0A=
> =0A=
> Bill Mullins=
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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