"call it quits" as phrasal eggcorn? And the OED
Joel S. Berson
Berson at ATT.NET
Fri Mar 28 02:08:46 UTC 2014
[My comment embedded below.]
At 3/27/2014 07:51 PM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>On Mar 27, 2014, at 5:10 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole wrote:
>
> > Here is some information about the relevant senses listed in the OED
> > together with some of the citations.
> >
> > quits 2 a. Even or equal with, esp. by means of repayment or retaliation.
> >
> > to cry quits: to declare oneself equal or even with another (cf.
> > quittance n. Phrases 2) (now rare). double or quits: see double adv.
> > 4.
> > ...
> >
> > quits 2 b. to call (it) quits = to cry quits at sense A. 2a; (also) to
> > abandon a quarrel, venture, etc., esp. in order to cut one's losses.
> >
> > 1851 Democratic State Reg. (Watertown, Wisconsin) 23 June 2/3 We
> > have discontinued our paper to the following individuals, who have
> > neglected to pay up arrearages... Hand up the balance due and we will
> > call it quits.
> >
> > 1898 J. London Let. 30 Nov. (1966) 5 Tomorrow I would cut my
> > throat and call quits with the whole cursed business.
> >
> > 1950 Manch. Guardian Weekly 16 Mar. 2/2 The old isolationists want
> > to 'call quits' on the whole business.
> >
> > 1963 J. Joesten They call it Intelligence ii. viii. 75 Vic smelled
> > a rat and decided to call it quits.
> >
> > LH suggested that the 1963 cite is the first one illustrating the
> > sense "abandon a quarrel, venture". Personally I cannot tell which
> > sense the 1950 citation illustrates without more context.
> >
> > Here is a 1955 instance for "abandon a venture".
>
>Point taken. You might be right about the 'quit, abandon a venture'
>sense for a couple of the earlier ones too; I'm probably being
>swayed by my own limited understanding of "call (it) quits" as
>limited to the first of the OED senses. I still think this is a
>phrasal eggcorn or reanalysis whenever it originated (even if it was
>back in ancient history, i.e. before I was born).
>
>LH
And Herb Stahlke wrote
>I have it in those contexts as well, but I've also heard "Let's call
>it quits" in the sense of both parties giving up on something. ...
I wonder if
"quits [A.]2 b. to call (it) quits = to cry quits at sense A. 2a;
(also) to abandon a quarrel, venture, etc., esp. in order to cut one's losses"
isn't really two senses. ("to cry quits at sense A. 2a" is "to
declare oneself equal or even with another".) I alluded to this in
an earlier message (which is somewhere down below).
If the utterance is singular or collective (a group acting in unison,
including presumably the royal "we"), the meaning is "abandon". E.g.
(recognizing that more context might change the classification),
1898 J. London Let. 30 Nov. (1966) 5 Tomorrow I would cut my
throat and call quits with the whole cursed business.
1950 Manch. Guardian Weekly 16 Mar. 2/2 The old isolationists
want to 'call quits' on the whole business.
1963 J. Joesten They call it Intelligence ii. viii. 75 Vic
smelled a rat and decided to call it quits.
1955 [Garson] " The ex-University of North Carolina halfback, now
31, told newsmen: 'For several reasons, I am calling it quits.' "
(The 1950 would move to the meaning below if the isolationists wanted
to convince the "other" to call it even.)
If the utterance is plural (between two or more individuals or
collectives), the meaning is "declare oneself equal with another". E.g.,
1851 Democratic State Reg. (Watertown, Wisconsin) 23 June 2/3 We
have discontinued our paper to the following individuals, who have
neglected to pay up arrearages... Hand up the balance due and we will
call it quits.
And probably all the "A.2.a to *cry* quits" quotations in the OED
belong to this class.
Joel
> >
> > [ref] 1955 March 30, Oregonian, Section 2, Justice Quits Pro Football,
> > Quote Page 3, Column 4, Portland, Oregon. (GenealogyBank)[/ref]
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > CHAPEL HILLS, N.C. (AP)
> > Charlie Justice, a star halfback for the Washington professional
> > Redskins for the last five years, said here Tuesday he is "definitely
> > through with football."
> >
> > The ex-University of North Carolina halfback, now 31, told newsmen:
> > "For several reasons, I am calling it quits."
> >
> > Justice said he had accepted a job with an oil company here and will
> > begin work April 1.
> > ...
> >
> > The short stocky Justice, who was selected as an all-American twice in
> > the late 1940s, had threatened to quit the pro game several times but
> > always went back for one more year.
> >
> > "This time I definitely mean to quit," he said. "I'm through with
> football."
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > Garson
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> >> Subject: Re: "call it quits" as phrasal eggcorn?
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> At 3/27/2014 02:51 PM, Laurence Horn wrote:
> >>> Really interesting, this "dialect split". Amazing that we can all
> >>> claim to be the same language when we can't agree on what calling it
> >>> quits entails! (As indicated, I'm with Dan on this,
> >>
> >> I am too, having the multiple possible meanings. Except I can
> >> generalize "I'm calling it quits" to mean "I'm finished with it" even
> >> when it's not even and not about a deteriorated
> >> relationship. However, I don't have a similar understanding of
> >> "We're quits" -- that requires some consent from the other person.
> >>
> >> In my previous message I was only discussing the "we're even" sense.
> >>
> >> Joel
> >>
> >>> while Herb and Wilson are in the other camp and Neal is, or was,
> >>> sitting it out. Who knew?)
> >>>
> >>> LH
> >>>
> >>> On Mar 27, 2014, at 12:33 PM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I have it in several contexts. In a game or contest, it means
> walking away
> >>>> with no one declared a winner. The same would be true of an
> argument -- no
> >>>> one wins, both sides end the discussion. The only way it could
> constitute
> >>>> the end of a relationship is if the relationship had deteriorated to
> >>>> nothing more than a never-ending argument.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> DanG
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 11:08 AM, Herb Stahlke
> >>> <hfwstahlke at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>>> -----------------------
> >>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>>> Poster: Herb Stahlke <hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: "call it quits" as phrasal eggcorn?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> No. For me it means whatever relationship we had is over.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 12:00 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>>>> -----------------------
> >>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>>>> Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: "call it quits" as phrasal eggcorn?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Do you guys have "we're quits" meaning "we're even"?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> LH
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mar 26, 2014, at 11:53 PM, Wilson Gray wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 10:30 PM, Neal Whitman
> <nwhitman at ameritech.net
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This message is the first intimation I ever had that "call it quits"
> >>>>>>>> meant anything other than "quit".
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It's news to me, too.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Youneverknow.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> -Wilson
> >>>>>>> -----
> >>>>>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange
> complaint to
> >>>>>>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >>>>>>> -Mark Twain
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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