[Ads-l] But-ing in: is it just me?

Sun Nov 2 14:17:32 UTC 2014

On Nov 1, 2014, at 11:16 AM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:

> I have a greater issue with the first 'but' in the first paragraph.

Yeah, I wondered about that too.  Seems like the second finding, together with our normal background assumptions about the nature of prejudice, would go in the same direction as, rather than the opposite direction from, the first.  "Furthermore" would make more sense than "But…also".  

LH

> On Nov 1, 2014 9:31 AM, "Laurence Horn" <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
> 
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> Subject:      Re: But-ing in: is it just me?
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> I think what might seem odd here is that the "topic sentence" of the =
>> paragraph, that "Voters don't necessarily form neat blocs according to =
>> their race", could be seen supported by the remainder of the paragraph, =
>> which makes the "but" seem strange.  But the "bloc" voting that the =
>> writer had in mind is "black voters tend to vote for black candidates", =
>> not the one Wilson (and most of us) have as part of our background =
>> knowledge, something like "black voters [like Jewish voters, Latino =
>> voters, etc.] tend to vote for Democratic candidates", which is =
>> supported--not challenged--by the failure of Lynn Swann et al. to garner =
>> black votes (assuming Swann is running for political office and not for =
>> the Pro Football Hall of Fame or Dancing With the Stars).  Or it may be =
>> indirect:  Black voters tend to vote in a bloc for candidates who =
>> support their interests, Republican candidates tend not to support the =
>> interests of black voters, ergo=85  But the point is that the evidence =
>> supports the thesis that there's no bloc voting by black voters for =
>> black candidates.
>> 
>> LH
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 1, 2014, at 3:36 AM, Spanbock/Svoboda-Spanbock wrote:
>> 
>>> Isn't it in opposition to their running for office? Sort of like, "I =
>> ran for the bus, but the driver didn't see me." ??
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> On Oct 31, 2014, at 10:31 PM, Wilson Gray wrote:
>>> =20
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header =
>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject:      But-ing in: is it just me?
>>>> =
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>> -----
>>>> =20
>>>> This is a paragraph from an article on a social-psychologi site. My =
>> problem
>>>> is that use of _but_. _But_ is used when what precedes that =
>> conjunction is
>>>> *contradicted*, in some sense, by what follows, right? Am I confused =
>> in
>>>> thinking that nothing in the final sentence contradicts, in any way,
>>>> anything in the preceding paragraph? I wouldn't bother anyone here =
>> with
>>>> this, except that I see it more and more often. It's as though the =
>> language
>>>> were undergoing a semantic shift that I'm unable to grasp. Am I =
>> getting
>>>> senile? Seriously!
>>>> =20
>>>> In one experiment, the researchers asked random white people on the =
>> street
>>>> to look at a video containing photos of various white and black =
>> inmates,
>>>> and then asked them their opinions about prison policy. The =
>> researchers
>>>> manipulated the proportions of white to black faces throughout, but
>>>> typically included a higher proportion of black faces than are =
>> actually
>>>> represented in California=3DE2=3D80=3D99s prisons, where the =
>> experiment was condu=3D
>>>> cted.
>>>> They asked everyone to guess the percentage of black inmates in the =
>> prison
>>>> population, and everyone guessed higher than the proportion of black =
>> faces
>>>> they saw, and higher than the proportion actually is in real life.
>>>> _But_,
>>>> the researchers also found, the more black faces they showed the
>>>> participants, the more likely the participants were to sign a =
>> petition in
>>>> support of the state=3DE2=3D80=3D99s strict =
>> =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cthree-strikes=3DE2=3D80=3D9D law.
>>>> =20
>>>> Jelani Cobb, despite being a native-born, black American himself, =
>> writes
>>>> (edited) in the New Yorker, that
>>>> =20
>>>> Voters don't necessarily form neat blocs according to their race. In =
>> 2006,
>>>> Lynn Swann, Ken Blackwell, and Michael Steele--three black =
>> Republicans--ran
>>>> for statewide office in, respectively, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and =
>> Maryland,
>>>> _but_
>>>> none of them garnered more than a quarter of the black vote.
>>>> =20
>>>> "But"?! What "but"? As Cobb points out himself, "three black
>>>> *Republicans*"! That Republicans, regardless of race, didn't get =
>> black
>>>> votes is precisely the expected outcome. His assertion, "don't
>>>> necessarily," isn't supported by his supposed "evidence."
>>>> =20
>>>> IMO, no conjunction at all, let alone the adversative, is required, =
>> in
>>>> either case.
>>>> =20
>>>> Or maybe I'm completely missing the point.
>>>> =20
>>>> Youneverknow.
>>>> --=3D20
>>>> -Wilson
>>>> -----
>>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint =
>> to
>>>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>> -Mark Twain
>>>> =20
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> =20
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>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> 
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>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> 
> 
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