[Ads-l] /d/ for flapped /t/

[Laurence Horn]

And the vowel height distinctions are even clearer with diphthongs/long vowels, as in the famous "writer"/"rider" pair.

LH

On Nov 15, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:

>> I think I even lower the tone of the "a" when I say "ladder" as compared
> to "latter".
> 
> I have no doubt that I do.
> 
> I also seem to hear vowel modification in the other exx.
> 
> JL
> 
> On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
> 
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>> Subject:      Re: /d/ for flapped /t/
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Answering Wilson also.
>> 
>> I can hear a difference when I speak knowing that there might be a
>> difference.  And it sounds (I think!) somewhat like what Jon is
>> describing.  I think I even lower the tone of the "a" when I say
>> "ladder" as compared to "latter".  But am I biasing myself to prove a
>> preconceived hypothesis?
>> 
>> Probably my test would only tell me what I can *hear* if I listened
>> to someone else speak a (potential minimal) pair -- such as
>> latter/ladder, butter/budder, better/bedder.  But then I would have
>> to listen to someone who makes the distinction in speaking, wouldn't I?
>> 
>> Joel
>> 
>> At 11/15/2014 08:09 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>> I believe I can hear the difference although it is subtle.
>>> 
>>> /d/ sounds (and feels) to me minutely longer and more emphatic. (A
>>> phonologist could say that better.)
>>> 
>>> Many of us will remember entire classrooms of students of whom only two or
>>> three could hear the difference between /a/ and /C/ (e.g., "pa" and "paw,"
>>> "hottie" and "haughty").  Practice helped, but it didn't help everybody.
>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
> 
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