[Ads-l] "No Irish need apply" (UNCLASSIFIED)
Laurence Horn
laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
Wed Aug 5 16:28:48 UTC 2015
Or perhaps this explains why the signs read "No Irish need apply" rather than "Irish need not apply", which I concede more easily allows the alternate 'free-ride' construal. Alternate theory: the former version provides "NINA" as a felicitous acronym, as we have seen, while the latter would yield "INNA", which would inevitably remind (some of) us of Iron Butterfly.
LH
> On Aug 5, 2015, at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
>> Or maybe potential Irish employees didn't *need* to apply, since they =
> would be handed jobs upon request.
>
> That *would* deconstruct the entire argument. Take that, young teen! The
> endless play of NINA signs is what really counts.
>
> JL
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 9:13 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: "No Irish need apply" (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>> On Aug 4, 2015, at 1:20 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> =
>> wrote:
>>> =20
>>> Presumably an exhaustive search for the phrase "No Irish" would =
>> uncover
>>> additional relevant examples.
>>> =20
>>> For bigoted employers in cities with large Irish populations, where =
>> many
>>> Irish applicants might respond to an ad, such notices would only make
>>> sense. Why encourage applicants who would automatically be turned =
>> away?
>>> =20
>>> JL
>>
>> Or maybe potential Irish employees didn't *need* to apply, since they =
>> would be handed jobs upon request. =20
>>
>> LH
>>
>>> =20
>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Jonathan Lighter =
>> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> =20
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject: Re: "No Irish need apply" (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>> =20
>>>> =
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>> -----
>>>> =20
>>>>> it is incredible that Jensen continues to denigrate her findings
>>>> =20
>>>> I detect unwarranted assumptions behind this statement - of exactly =
>> the
>>>> kind I used to make before I was wised up.
>>>> =20
>>>> JL
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Mullins, Bill CIV (US) <
>>>> william.d.mullins18.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
>>>> =20
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>> Poster: "Mullins, Bill CIV (US)" =
>> <william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL
>>>>> =20
>>>>> Subject: Re: "No Irish need apply" (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>> =
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>> -----
>>>>> =20
>>>>> CLASSIFICATION: UNCLASSIFIED
>>>>> =20
>>>>> I contacted Ms. Fried and she sent me a link to an accessible copy =
>> of her
>>>>> a=3D
>>>>> rticle. It is very nicely done, and it is incredible that Jensen
>>>>> continues=3D
>>>>> to denigrate her findings:
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>> =
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.washingtonpost.c=
>> om_local_education_this-2D14-2Dyear-2Dold-2Dsidwell-2Dfrie-3D&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=
>> =3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&=
>> m=3Dzj-QUrvffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dxjdEpFQ&s=3Dz5RkCmII8yaseBBCsmX2y2=
>> bqnV17wYFZvF2LZdfai6c&e=3D=20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>> =
>> nds-student-outwitted-a-college-historian/2015/08/03/fcd33356-3a1b-11e5-9c=
>> 2=3D
>>>>> d-ed991d848c48_story.html
>>>>> =20
>>>>> I've asked her for permission to share the link to the article on =
>> this
>>>>> list=3D
>>>>> , and invited her to register and participate.
>>>>> =20
>>>>> When I was fourteen, I spent my time reading comic books and =
>> watching the
>>>>> "=3D
>>>>> Six Million Dollar Man". She is amazing.
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>>>>> Behalf =3D
>>>>> Of MULLINS, WILLIAM D (Bill) CIV USARMY RDECOM
>>>>>> AMRDEC (US)
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 9:07 AM
>>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>>> Subject: Re: "No Irish need apply" (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>>> =3D20
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> -----------------=3D
>>>>> ------
>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>>> Poster: "Mullins, Bill CIV (US)" <
>>>> william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Subject: Re: "No Irish need apply" (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>> =
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=3D=
>>
>>>>> ------
>>>>>> =3D20
>>>>>> CLASSIFICATION: UNCLASSIFIED
>>>>>> =3D20
>>>>>> Jensen's original article is available here:
>>>>>> =3D20
>>>>>> =
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__tigger.uic.edu_-7Erj=
>> ensen_no-2Dirish.htm&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39h=
>> B2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dzj-QUrvffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dx=
>> jdEpFQ&s=3DGxPzDmXxThElgwOZ-N0rt7WV4jFiy-CJZN1QbvQrIH8&e=3D=20
>>>>>> =3D20
>>>>>> I can't find Fried's rebuttal article, except behind a (rather
>>>>> expensive)=3D
>>>>> p=3D3D
>>>>>> aywall:
>>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>> =
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__intl-2Djsh.oxfordjou=
>> rnals.org_content_early_2015_07_03_jsh.shv066.fu-3D&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=3D-dg2m7z=
>> WuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dzj-QUr=
>> vffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dxjdEpFQ&s=3D4svZhV7ynjYiblyQb2kuaTSekS2z0ffN=
>> 6H9ldZ8fkkk&e=3D=20
>>>>> ll
>>>>>> =3D20
>>>>>> (and, btw, Fried's title, "No Irish Need Deny", is great)
>>>>>> =3D20
>>>>>> Does anyone have contact info for Fried that I can ask her to send =
>> a
>>>>> copy=3D
>>>>> ?
>>>>>> =3D20
>>>>>> =3D20
>>>>>> =3D20
>>>>>> =3D20
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>>>>> Behal=3D
>>>>> f =3D3D
>>>>>> Of Jesse Sheidlower
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2015 12:20 PM
>>>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>>>> Subject: "No Irish need apply"
>>>>>>> =3D3D20
>>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> ---------------=3D
>>>>> --=3D3D
>>>>>> ------
>>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>>>> Poster: Jesse Sheidlower <jester at PANIX.COM>
>>>>>>> Subject: "No Irish need apply"
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>> =
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=3D=
>>
>>>>> --=3D3D
>>>>>> ------
>>>>>>> =3D3D20
>>>>>>> Slightly off-topic, but interesting: In 2002, a professor =
>> published
>>>> an
>>>>> =3D
>>>>> ar=3D3D
>>>>>> ticle claiming that he could barely find any evidence for the =
>> supposed
>>>>>>> notices reading "No Irish need apply", and that the notion that =
>> the
>>>>> Iri=3D
>>>>> sh=3D3D
>>>>>> were thus discriminated against stemmed from a sense of
>>>>>>> victimhood among modern Irish-Americans.
>>>>>>> =3D3D20
>>>>>>> A high-school student with better database-fu has no proved that, =
>> in
>>>>> fa=3D
>>>>> ct=3D3D
>>>>>> , there were many such notices. The student's article is appearing
>>>>>>> in a major journal.
>>>>>>> =3D3D20
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>> =
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.longislandwins.c=
>> om_columns_detail_high-5Fschool-5Fstudent-5Fproves-3D&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=3D-dg2m=
>> 7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dzj-Q=
>> UrvffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dxjdEpFQ&s=3DAnzArq6oK7b17bpXzSZsLNMDX-yoTX=
>> l8u5w0FNsjCvU&e=3D=20
>>>>> _p=3D3D
>>>>>> rofessor_wrong_when_he_denied_no_irish_need_app
>>>>>>> =3D3D20
>>>>>>> Jesse Sheidlower
>>>>>>> =3D3D20
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - =
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.americandialect.=
>> org&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsS=
>> xPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dzj-QUrvffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dxjdEpFQ&s=3D7z-kqd=
>> 5Jon0ykjP0la5cqq6kXq5MU7q--BjrEbKDiwo&e=3D=20
>>>>>> CLASSIFICATION: UNCLASSIFIED
>>>>>> =3D20
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - =
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.americandialect.=
>> org&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsS=
>> xPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dzj-QUrvffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dxjdEpFQ&s=3D7z-kqd=
>> 5Jon0ykjP0la5cqq6kXq5MU7q--BjrEbKDiwo&e=3D=20
>>>>> CLASSIFICATION: UNCLASSIFIED
>>>>> =20
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The American Dialect Society - =
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.americandialect.=
>> org&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsS=
>> xPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dzj-QUrvffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dxjdEpFQ&s=3D7z-kqd=
>> 5Jon0ykjP0la5cqq6kXq5MU7q--BjrEbKDiwo&e=3D=20
>>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> --
>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the =
>> truth."
>>>> =20
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - =
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.americandialect.=
>> org&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsS=
>> xPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dzj-QUrvffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dxjdEpFQ&s=3D7z-kqd=
>> 5Jon0ykjP0la5cqq6kXq5MU7q--BjrEbKDiwo&e=3D=20
>>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> --=20
>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the =
>> truth."
>>> =20
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - =
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.americandialect.=
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>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIBaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=7UKUWy5NDKp-iDF99e_1R-r-p5ibtstbh1mUInBh8dM&s=7VOJzYHIjKXyYBTmaOdm3wYj3njXkuxCAINKi7wKVwk&e=
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIBaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=7UKUWy5NDKp-iDF99e_1R-r-p5ibtstbh1mUInBh8dM&s=7VOJzYHIjKXyYBTmaOdm3wYj3njXkuxCAINKi7wKVwk&e=
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