[Ads-l] Albanians

Fri Feb 20 00:21:56 UTC 2015

Isn't Albany, GA "Awlbayny"?

Paul

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Lighter" <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 11:47:04 AM
> Subject: Re: Albanians
> 
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Albanians
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> My grandmother (b. 1888) once questioned my pronunciation of  "
> 'Awlbany."
> She thought it "used to be" "Awl 'bayny."
> 
> I could never figure this out. Maybe she had heard "Albanians" and
> "Awlbayny" in the 1890s.
> 
> JL
> 
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 11:35 AM, Laurence Horn
> <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> wrote:
> 
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > Subject:      Re: Albanians
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Can't remember if residents of Greece, NY (a suburb of Rochester =
> > contiguous with Chili /'tSai lai/) are Greeks, Grecians, or
> > neither.  =
> > And are inhabitants of Paris, Texas Parisians, or Paris-ites?
> >
> > LH=20
> >
> >
> > On Feb 19, 2015, at 11:24 AM, Paul A Johnston, Jr. wrote:
> >
> > > The little town in New York State, Monroe, has a similar problem.
> > >  We =
> > are "Monrovians" but have probably never been to Liberia.
> > >=20
> > > Paul
> > >=20
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > >> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 10:51:58 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Albanians
> > >>=20
> > >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >> -----------------------
> > >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > >> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > >> Subject:      Re: Albanians
> > >> =
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> > -----
> > >>=20
> > >> At 2/19/2015 10:21 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:
> > >>> Wonder if the first vowel would disambiguate in=3D20
> > >>> the spoken language.  Ah, yes, so saith OED, at=3D20
> > >>> least in the primary pronunciation with open /O-/.
> > >>=20
> > >> Probably, but the invitation wasn't written in IPA.
> > >>=20
> > >>> There's also Albanian, n.3 and adj.1, another new one on me:
> > >>>=20
> > >>> Of or relating to Scotland or its people;=3D20
> > >>> Scottish. Chiefly with reference to the time=3D20
> > >>> prior to the Scottish Wars of Independence=3D20
> > >>> (1296=3DAD1357), in later use often in relation to=3D20
> > >>> the Scots (Scot n.1 1) who settled in what is now western
> > >>> Scotland.
> > >>=20
> > >> I wondered, but then remembered.  To quote=3D20
> > >> Wikipedia, "Albion", not just the island of Great Britain, but:
> > >>=20
> > >> "... The name for Scotland in the Celtic=3D20
> > >> languages is related to Albion: Alba in Scottish=3D20
> > >> Gaelic, Albain in Irish, Nalbin in Manx and Alban=3D20
> > >> in Welsh, Cornish and Breton. These names were=3D20
> > >> later Latinised as Albania and Anglicised as=3D20
> > >> Albany, which were once alternative names for Scotland."
> > >>=20
> > >> Joel
> > >>=20
> > >>=20
> > >>> Presumably they'd have been recognized as British but not as
> > >>> English...
> > >>>=20
> > >>> LH
> > >>>=20
> > >>> On Feb 19, 2015, at 10:09 AM, Joel S. Berson wrote:
> > >>>=20
> > >>>> "Following the French and Indian War,=3D20
> > >>> Albanians believed themselves to be British,=3D20
> > >>> but visiting Britons did not recognize them as fellow
> > >>> countrymen."
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>> Since this is the first sentence of the=3D20
> > >>> description of a talk titled "Degrees of=3D20
> > >>> Britishness: The People of Albany, New York,=3D20
> > >>> and Questions of Cultural Community Membership,=3D20
> > >>> 1763--1775", I suffered a moment of=3D20
> > >>> dislocation.  But the next sentence brought me back across the
> > >>> ocean:
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>> "New World Dutch architecture, the Albany=3D20
> > >>> Dutch dialect, and the Dutch Reformed Church=3D20
> > >>> contributed to the British view of the=3D20
> > >>> Albanians as inter-imperial foreigners:=3D20
> > >>> subjects who lived within the British empire=3D20
> > >>> but stood outside of the British cultural community."
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>> And I find it has a long history, even if not=3D20
> > >>> as long as in the Caucasuses* -- "Albanian,=3D20
> > >>> n.4", "A native or inhabitant of Albany, New York State", from
> > >>> 1689.
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>> * Not to be confused with Secaucus, which is not close to
> > >>>> Albany.
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>> Joel
> > >>=20
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >>=20
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> 
> 
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> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
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