[Ads-l] "off the cuff" antedated to 1934

Amy West medievalist at W-STS.COM
Tue Feb 24 12:47:43 UTC 2015 

Because I am Captain Obvious, the racetrack tip cite and the credit 
sense really seem connected to me with the development of the use of 
paper shirt cuffs (which comes in the 'teens?) and so the possibility of 
writing things on the cuffs.

---Amy West

On 2/24/15 12:00 AM, ADS-L automatic digest system wrote:
> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 19:28:43 +0000 From: "Mullins, Bill CIV (US)" 
> <william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL> Subject: Re: "off the cuff" 
> antedated to 1934 (UNCLASSIFIED) Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: 
> NONE Yes it does. I wasn't aware of that meaning until I looked the 
> phrase up in OED (after I posted).
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>> >Behalf Of Jonathan Lighter
>> >Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 1:27 PM
>> >To:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> >Subject: Re: "off the cuff" antedated to 1934 (UNCLASSIFIED)
>> >
>> >---------------------- Information from the mail header ---------------
>> >--------
>> >Sender:       American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >Poster:       Jonathan Lighter<wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> >Subject:      Re: "off the cuff" antedated to 1934 (UNCLASSIFIED)
>> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >--------
>> >
>> >The 1925 ex. seems unusually  to mean "out of debt."  ("On the cuff" =
>> >'on
>> >credit.')
>> >
>> >JL
>> >
>> >On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Mullins, Bill CIV (US) <
>> >william.d.mullins18.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
>> >
>>> > >---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> > >-----------------------
>>> > >Sender:       American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> > >Poster:       "Mullins, Bill CIV (US)"
>> ><william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL>
>>> > >Subject:      Re: "off the cuff" antedated to 1934 (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>> > >
>>> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >-
>>> > >---------
>>> > >
>>> > >Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> > >Caveats: NONE
>>> > >
>>> > >_Variety_  29 Apr 1925 p 21 col 4
>>> > >[review of theatrical show]
>>> > >"Didn't have a chance and producer and theater were smart enough to
>> >go
>>> > >afte= r the two for ones.  Kept house from going dark and will just
>>> > >about get off=  the cuff."
>>> > >
>>> > >_Photoplay_  Apr 1926 pp 50-51
>>> > >"Mickey Neilan was some seven hours late on his set one day.  And the
>>> > >compa= ny waited and shivered -- and then shivered and waited some
>>> > >more.
>>> > >"Must have lost his script," hazarded a member of the cast.
>>> > >"Sure," says the prop boy.  "Must have lost his script and is now
>>> > >hunting t= hrough all the shirts in the Hollywood laundry to find
>> >it."
>>> > >(You see, Mickey Neilan is famous for being one of the few surviving
>>> > >direct= ors who "shoot from the cuff" -- which means the only script
>>> > >he ever has is=  what's in his head, aided by an occasional note on
>>> > >his cuff.)"
>>> > >
>>> > >_Hollywood Vagabond_  28 Apr 1927 p 5 col 3 "We don't get out here in
>>> > >the lights and then try to find out what's going = to happen.  We
>> >read
>>> > >the script, know the story and throw the script away.
>>> > >=
>>> > >Then we come out on the set and shoot it off the cuff."
>>> > >
>>> > >_The Film Daily_  11 May 1930 p 5 col 2
>>> > >
>>> > >"Credit Roy Mack of the Vitaphone studio with the one about the
>>> > >director wh= o was shooting off the cuff and moaned that he had
>> >washed
>>> > >his shirt and los= t the script."
>>> > >
>>>> > > >-----Original Message-----
>>>> > > >From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>>>> > > >Behalf Of ADSGarson O'Toole
>>>> > > >Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 1:26 PM
>>>> > > >To:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>> > > >Subject: Re: "off the cuff" antedated to 1934
>>>> > > >=20
>>>> > > >---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> > > >---------------
>>>> > > >--------
>>>> > > >Sender:       American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> > > >Poster:       ADSGarson O'Toole<adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> > > >Subject:      Re: "off the cuff" antedated to 1934
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >-
>>>> > > >--
>>>> > > >--------
>>>> > > >=20
>>>> > > >John Baker posted some valuable material to the ADS list in 2012 on
>>>> > > >the  "off the cuff" topic:
>>>> > > >=20
>>>> > > >http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2012-
>>>> > > >August/121540.html
>>>> > > >=20
>>>> > > >I found some cites for "shoot from the cuff" starting in July 17,
>> >1927:
>>>> > > >=20
>>>> > > >http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2012-
>>>> > > >August/121545.html
>>>> > > >=20
>>>> > > >Garson
>>>> > > >=20
>>>> > > >On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Stephen Goranson
>>>> > > ><goranson at duke.edu>
>>>> > > >wrote:
>>>>> > > > >---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> > > > >-------------
>>>> > > >----------
>>>>> > > > >Sender:       American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>> > > > >Poster:       Stephen Goranson<goranson at DUKE.EDU>
>>>>> > > > >Subject:      Re: "off the cuff" antedated to 1934
>>>>> > > > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >-
>>>>> > > > >---
>>>> > > >-
>>>>> > > > >---------
>>>>> > > > >
>>>>> > > > >=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >July 31, 1932. Times-Picayune [New Orleans], Section 2, p. 5,
>> >col. 1.
>>>>> > > > >Headl=3D
>>>>> > > > >ine: Movie Formula Revived with Uproar Unknown to
>> >Silents.=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >=3D85."you never know where a picture is going these
>>> > >days"=3D85."Right,=
>>> > >"
>>>>> > > > >he [a =3D studio head] beamed,"it was shot right off the cuff
>>>>> > > > >every morning=3D85isn't t=3D hat phenomenal?" [The same paper has
>>>>> > > > >an iffy
>>> > >Sep=
>>> > >t.
>>>>> > > > >1, 1929 use: "=3D85.I pick=3D ed one off the cuff and gave it to
>>>>> > > > >him
>>> > >fo=
>>> > >r
>>>>> > > > >free."=3D96horse racing tip.]=3D0A=3D =3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >________________________________________=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >From: American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>  on behalf
>>>>> > > > >of Stephe=3D n Goranson<goranson at DUKE.EDU>=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 10:48 AM=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >To:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >Subject: [ADS-L] "off the cuff" antedated to 1934=3D0A=3D
>> >=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >The previous earliest mentioned was Aug. 16, 1936 (discussed at
>>>>> > > > >Language Lo=3D g and Early Sports and Pop Culture History
>>>>> > > > >Blog).=3D0A=3D =3D0A=
>>> > >=3D Gene
>>>>> > > > >Fowler, Father Goose The Story of Mack Sennett (NY: Covici,
>>>>> > > > >Friede, 19=3D
>>>>> > > > >34) page 147:=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >He set up his cameras with showmanlike haste and began shooting
>>>>> > > > >extemporane=3D ously-, or, "off the cuff."=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > >
>>> > >
>> >http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=3D3Dmdp.39015003982835;view=3D3D
>>> > >1up=
>>> > >;
>>>>> > > > >seq=3D
>>>>> > > > >=3D3D161=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >Stephen Goranson=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------
>> >=3D0A=
>>>>> > > > >3D The American Dialect Society -
>>>>> > > > >http://www.americandialect.org=3D0A=3D
>>>>> > > > >
>>>>> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> > > > >The American Dialect Society -http://www.americandialect.org
>>>> > > >=20
>>>> > > >------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > > >The American Dialect Society -http://www.americandialect.org
>>> > >
>>> > >Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> > >Caveats: NONE
>>> > >
>>> > >------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >The American Dialect Society -http://www.americandialect.org
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> >truth."
>> >
>> >------------------------------------------------------------
>> >The American Dialect Society -http://www.americandialect.org
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society -http://www.americandialect.org
>
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