[Ads-l] "unbeaten" = "once beaten"

[Gordon, Matthew J.]

What I meant was that "has won," as both of you suggested, would not be accurate if the record includes a tie, which I assume it does since the reporter chose this phrasing. As you note, there are other ways of expressing this, but "Jamaica has won 7 of its last 8 Gold Cup matches" is not one of them.

________________________________________
From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf of Joel Berson [berson at ATT.NET]
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:04 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: "unbeaten" = "once beaten"

If Gordon means "unbeaten in 8, one of which was a draw", that is incorrect.  Panama lost to the USA in the final of the 2013 Gold Cup, and has so far played just 3 matches this year.  (The original said "last eight _Gold Cup_ matches".)

If Gordon means "unbeaten in 7 of it last 8 Gold Cup matches, one of which was a tie," I still say an odd usage.  "Panama has won or drawn 7 of its last 8 Gold Cup matches"; or "Panama has not lost in 7 of its last 8 ..."; or "Panama has lost only 1 of its last 8 ...".

Joel

      From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
 To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
 Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 6:08 PM
 Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "unbeaten" = "once beaten"

Touche'.

But my stylistic point stays valid.

JL

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Gordon, Matthew J. <GordonMJ at missouri.edu>
wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:      "Gordon, Matthew J." <GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: "unbeaten" = "once beaten"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I believe "unbeaten" is accurate here since their record includes a draw.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf of
> Jonath=
> an Lighter [wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 4:40 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: "unbeaten" =3D "once beaten"
>
> "has been unbeaten" sounds rougher 'n' tougher than a wimpy "has won," or
> even "has been victorious."
>
> "Has totally kicked ass," however, will soon be preferred, .
>
> JL
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:      Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > Subject:      Re: "unbeaten" =3D "once beaten"
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> >
> > > On Jul 15, 2015, at 2:05 PM, Joel Berson <berson at att.net> wrote:
> > >=3D20
> > > "Jamaica is unbeaten in seven of its last eight Gold Cup matches ...".
> > >=3D20
> > > An equally undefeated team could be "unbeaten in one of its last eight
> =
> =3D
> > matches."
> > >=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > > Presumably "has won" is too simple for an AP correspondent.  [Boston =
> =3D
> > Globe, today.]
> >
> > All true, but technically, if "unbeaten" in "unbeaten in 7 of its last 8
> =
> =3D
> > Gold Cup matches" really meant "once beaten", they would be 6-2 rather =
> =3D
> > than the (I assume) intended 7-1.
> >
> > Pickily,
> > LH=3D
> >
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org