[Ads-l] to ------ drive (fill in blank)
Jonathan Lighter
wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Tue Jul 21 15:05:21 UTC 2015
I was thinking of the preposition in the source phrase "sit with the baby,"
rather than the syntax of "to babysit."
I think it can be either trans. or intrans. for me, though I imagine
journalists prefer the trans. form. because it saves space.
JL
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Charles C Doyle <cdoyle at uga.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: Charles C Doyle <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: to ------ drive (fill in blank)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Though in some dialects (e.g. mine!) the preposition "with" or "for" is
> sti=
> ll required after the verb "babysit." (That is to say, "babysit" is
> intran=
> sitive.)
>
> More at my note "Optional Prepositions," American Speech 52 (1977): 28.
>
> Charlie
>
> ________________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Jonath=
> an Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: to ------ drive (fill in blank)
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -------------------=
> ----
> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: to ------ drive (fill in blank)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ----
>
> As Grandma explained it, the earlier locution (which she thought came
> during WW2) was the fairly straightforward to "sit with the baby." Hence
> "babysitter," "babysitting," and finally "babysit."
>
> "Babysit" actually seems more radical to me than "word vomit," because
> "babysit" can be thought of as eliding a preposition, while "word vomit"
> doesn't have to.
>
> To "low-crawl," BTW, is a standard technique for moving with your head down
> while flat on the ground. Am surprised it does not appear in any WW2
> writings, AFAIK.
>
>
> JL
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: to ------ drive (fill in blank)
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> >
> > > On Jul 21, 2015, at 9:52 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> =
> =3D
> > wrote:
> > >=3D20
> > > Here's what a Republican "strategist" just told CNN...at least up to =
> =3D
> > the
> > > point where my brain shut down:
> > >=3D20
> > > "Donald Trump never apologizes for anything. He just word vomits and
> > > then...."
> > >=3D20
> > > I imagine that the now standard "babysit" is an early cousin of this
> > > tendency.
> >
> > A cousin but I think not a parent. I was going to mention "baby-sit" =3D
> > when we were discussing "drunk-drive", but then I realized that in the =
> =3D
> > former case there's no obvious alternative option to the back-formed =3D
> > verb, since "baby-sitting" has a specific meaning that would be lost in,
> =
> =3D
> > say "I baby-sit to supplement my income as a hedge fund investor": "I =
> =3D
> > sit for babies to supplement my income..."? "sit on babies"? Nope, =3D
> > only "baby-sit" will do. For "drunk drive", as you were pointing out =3D
> > earlier, "drive drunk" isn't *that* distant, although if I'm right it's =
> =3D
> > not quite the same conceptually. I think "word-vomit" is somewhere in =
> =3D
> > between, given the at least plausible alternative form, "He just vomits =
> =3D
> > words and then..."=3D20
> >
> > >=3D20
> > > A direct antecedent of "to reckless drive" is "to low-crawl," which is
> > > universal in the armed forces. I don't know if it antedates the VN =3D
> > War,
> > > though.
> >
> > Interesting. That one I (not having been in the military) haven't =3D
> > heard.
> >
> > LH
> > >=3D20
> > > Wilson?
> > >=3D20
> > > JL
> > >=3D20
> > > On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Jonathan Lighter =3D
> > <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >=3D20
> > >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >> -----------------------
> > >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > >> Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > >> Subject: Re: to ------ drive (fill in blank)
> > >>=3D20
> > >> =3D
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -=3D
> > -----
> > >>=3D20
> > >>> So I don't think it's really "to ___-drive (fill in the blank)", =3D
> > unless
> > >> it gets you a new category of actions.
> > >>=3D20
> > >> Actually the header was a challenge, not a theoretical postulate. I =
> =3D
> > agree
> > >> that to "fast drive" is currently unlikely.
> > >>=3D20
> > >> Or is it? =3D46rom 2002:
> > >>=3D20
> > >> =3D
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3D3Dhttp-3A__cgee.hamline.edu_=
> riv=3D
> >
> ers_MA_expedition_expedition2002_Alexjournal.htm-3D&d=3D3DAwIBaQ&c=3D3D-d=
> g2m7z=3D
> >
> WuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3D3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3D3Dc=
> 8e1vP=3D
> >
> oHnZHSrUZFlkxpWQErqeEwanMDMNbwmLu3obs&s=3D3D4R6S5jLZ4FAUSvBl-YVLt3TKNw69f=
> 6FC=3D
> > GiTbfYSHJoI&e=3D3D=3D20
> > >> l
> > >>=3D20
> > >>=3D20
> > >> "We fast drove to Wabasha, our next stop."
> > >>=3D20
> > >> =3D46rom 2005:
> > >> pages.intnet.mu/servas/Archives/.../No%2013%20-%20June%202005.do...
> > >>=3D20
> > >> In the end Demelza had to fast-drive home to fetch her TV.
> > >>=3D20
> > >> 2007:
> > >> *www.roadtripamerica.com =3D3DE2=3D3D80=3D3DBA ...
> =3D3DE2=3D3D80=3D3D=
> BA Topics =3D
> > =3D3DE2=3D3D80=3D3DBA
> > >> RoadTrip =3D3D
> > >> Field Reports*
> > >> =3D
> > <
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3D3Dhttp-3A__www.roadtripameri=
> ca=3D
> >
> .com-20-3DE2-3D80-3DBA-20...-20-3DE2-3D80-3DBA-20Topics-20-3DE2-3D80-3DBA=
> -=3D
> >
> 0A&d=3D3DAwIBaQ&c=3D3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3D3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0Z=
> pW1TsSx=3D
> >
> PIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3D3Dc8e1vPoHnZHSrUZFlkxpWQErqeEwanMDMNbwmLu3obs&s=3D3Dfs=
> dhP9P=3D
> > KiWB-awMtPhWgOTGke4bLPWMjQpZq1xT8R54&e=3D3D > Ro=3D3D
> > >> adTrip Field Reports>
> > >>=3D20
> > >> We slow-drove through the heart of the park to see all the weird =3D
> > rock.
> > >>=3D20
> > >> And the piece of resistance (2014): www.sau.com.au
> =3D3DE2=3D3D80=3D3D=
> BA =3D
> > ...
> > >> =3D3DE2=3D3D80=3D3DBA =3D3D
> > >> Forced Induction
> > >> Performance
> > >>=3D20
> > >> I had to reckless drive it to get any acceleration and when the =3D
> > torque was
> > >> there cops were the main problem because of the vastly illegal speed.
> > >>=3D20
> > >> JL
> > >>=3D20
> > >> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> =3D
> > wrote:
> > >>=3D20
> > >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >>> -----------------------
> > >>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > >>> Poster: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> > >>> Subject: Re: to ------ drive (fill in blank)
> > >>>=3D20
> > >>>=3D20
> > >> =3D
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D3D=3D
> >
> > >> ------
> > >>>=3D20
> > >>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Laurence Horn =3D
> > <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>=3D20
> > >>>> in the minority
> > >>>=3D20
> > >>>=3D20
> > >>> Been there, lived that, agree with you entirely. Use hyphenation and
> =
> =3D
> > use
> > >> =3D3D
> > >> it
> > >>> *correctly*, for heaven's sake! No more "You're up-to-date!" but, =3D
> > "An up
> > >> =3D3D
> > >> to
> > >>> date version..."! Bring back the comma! That unnecessary nanosecond =
> =3D
> > of
> > >>> double-take really "bugs my head," as we said, back in the day of my
> =
> =3D
> > lost
> > >>> youth.
> > >>>=3D20
> > >>> Peeves being extremely idiosyncratic and essentially nonsense, I =3D
> > must add
> > >>> that dropped apostrophes don't annoy me nearly so much as missing =3D
> > commas
> > >>> do.
> > >>>=3D20
> > >>> Youneverknow.
> > >>>=3D20
> > >>>=3D20
> > >>> --
> > >>> -Wilson
> > >>> -----
> > >>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
> =
> =3D
> > to
> > >>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> > >>> -Mark Twain
> > >>>=3D20
> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>> The American Dialect Society - =3D
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3D3Dhttp-3A__www.americandiale=
> ct.=3D
> >
> org&d=3D3DAwIBaQ&c=3D3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3D3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0=
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> >
> xPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3D3Dc8e1vPoHnZHSrUZFlkxpWQErqeEwanMDMNbwmLu3obs&s=3D3Di=
> 6HeSN=3D
> > fKpw2JpH9tOvm9tjsmeKUGnXpg9lgiIq6byaU&e=3D3D=3D20
> > >>>=3D20
> > >>=3D20
> > >>=3D20
> > >>=3D20
> > >> --=3D3D20
> > >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the =
> =3D
> > truth."
> > >>=3D20
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> The American Dialect Society - =3D
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3D3Dhttp-3A__www.americandiale=
> ct.=3D
> >
> org&d=3D3DAwIBaQ&c=3D3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3D3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0=
> ZpW1TsS=3D
> >
> xPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3D3Dc8e1vPoHnZHSrUZFlkxpWQErqeEwanMDMNbwmLu3obs&s=3D3Di=
> 6HeSN=3D
> > fKpw2JpH9tOvm9tjsmeKUGnXpg9lgiIq6byaU&e=3D3D=3D20
> > >>=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > > --=3D20
> > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the =3D
> > truth."
> > >=3D20
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - =3D
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3D3Dhttp-3A__www.americandiale=
> ct.=3D
> >
> org&d=3D3DAwIBaQ&c=3D3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3D3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0=
> ZpW1TsS=3D
> >
> xPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3D3Dc8e1vPoHnZHSrUZFlkxpWQErqeEwanMDMNbwmLu3obs&s=3D3Di=
> 6HeSN=3D
> > fKpw2JpH9tOvm9tjsmeKUGnXpg9lgiIq6byaU&e=3D3D=3D20
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org=
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
--
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
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