[Ads-l] n-word update (UNCLASSIFIED)

Wed Jun 24 00:30:12 UTC 2015

Are they really talking about the state flags, or the state-issued license plates, which include available options incorporating the Stars and Bars (that's for Virginia, Tennessee, and other states of the old Confederacy?  There was something on the TV news about it, and I see now this piece on politico:

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/confederate-license-plates-in-crosshairs-but-not-in-south-carolina-119335.html

If I'm right, that clears up the question about semiotics; the confederate flag on the license plates is a confederate flag.

LH

> On Jun 23, 2015, at 3:10 PM, Mullins, Bill CIV (US) <william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL> wrote:
> 
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
> 
> If only he were a semiotician.  Then it would have been obvious.
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>> Behalf Of Jonathan Lighter
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 2:09 PM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: n-word update (UNCLASSIFIED)
>> 
>> 
>> I just checked with a white lawyer friend of mine - a lifelong
>> Tennessean of rural background, a Democrat, a supporter of liberal
>> clauses, and a former history major.
>> 
>> I asked if he'd ever thought the Tennessee state flag "resembled" the
>> CSA flag.
>> 
>> He said, "I never thought about it before. I just remember thinking it
>> was an attractive design. ...Now that I do think of it...There's no
>> resemblance."
>> 
>> But maybe he was in deep, deep denial. The more I stare fixedly, with
>> my mind blank, the more it starts to remind me of the *Nazi* flag...red
>> background, charged disk in the middle with white, same
>> shape...Strange....
>> 
>> Jeez!  Alert the media!
>> 
>> JL
>> 
>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Mullins, Bill CIV (US) <
>> william.d.mullins18.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
>> 
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       "Mullins, Bill CIV (US)"
>> <william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL>
>>> Subject:      Re: n-word update (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>> ---------
>>> 
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>> 
>>> The North Carolina Flag evokes the Texas Flag, not the Confederacy.
>>> 
>>> All of the "connections" between the Tennessee flag and the
>>> Confederacy com= e from an article by Steven Knowlton, who is an Asst
>>> Professor at the Univ = of Memphis.  His BA (History) and MLIS (Lib
>>> Sciences) are from Michigan uni= versities, so he must be a Yankee
>> and
>>> and his arguments and conclusions are=
>>>  therefore SUSPECT. =20
>>> 
>>> His argument boils down to "People in the South pined for the
>> Confederacy.
>>> =
>>> Therefore similarities between the Tn flag and the Confederate
>> Battle
>>> Flag=  (white stars on a blue charge, red and blue design elements)
>>> evoke the Con= federate flag.  QED."
>>> 
>>> Never mind that the elements in the TN flag which are common to the
>>> Confede= rate flag are also common to the U.S. Flag, and are in
>>> general good patriot= ic design elements which are common to many
>>> flags which have nothing to do = with, and predate, the Confederacy
>>> (see Betsy Ross designs, or French or Br= itish flags).
>>> 
>>> Never mind that the guy who designed the TN flag wrote openly about
>>> what th= e design elements symbolized, and none of them had anything
>>> to do with the = Late Unpleasantness.  Never mind that he lived in
>>> East Tn, a pro-Union part=  of the state.  Never mind that
>>> contemporary news coverage of the new flag = never mentioned any
>>> connection to the Confederacy.
>>> 
>>> Plus, Godwin's law applies to his article.  Nazi flags evoked
>> elements
>>> of e= arlier German flags, therefore TN flag evokes CSA.
>>> =20
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>>>> Behalf Of Jonathan Lighter
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 11:31 AM
>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>> Subject: Re: n-word update (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>> =20
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> ---------------
>>>> --------
>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject:      Re: n-word update (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>> 
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>>> --
>>>> --------
>>>> =20
>>>> If you think that's a reach, try North Carolina....
>>>> =20
>>>> Much of this argument strikes me as offensively patronizing. The
>>>> case  of South Carolina was egregious: the battle flag went up over
>>>> the State  House in 1961 as a protest against the Civil Rights
>>>> Movement. That was  back when Strom "Dixiecrat" Thurmond was a U.S.
>>>> Senator. Some years ago  an attempt was made to remove the flag,
>>>> which ended in the compromise  that it would not be flown over the
>>>> House, but must continue to be  flown in the grounds.
>>>> =20
>>>> Wikipedia doesn't seem to cover these events, so I'm relying in
>> CNN.
>>>> =20
>>>> That's an actual Confederate flag, not a design perhaps suggested
>> by
>>>> it  (or vaguely suggesting it). And regardless of the Civil War, it
>>>> was  placed there as an intentional affront to black people and the
>>>> federal  government.
>>>> Within living memory.
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> JL
>>>> =20
>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Mullins, Bill CIV (US) <
>>>> william.d.mullins18.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
>>>> =20
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>> Poster:       "Mullins, Bill CIV (US)"
>>>> <william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL>
>>>>> Subject:      Re: n-word update (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>>>> ---
>>>> -
>>>>> ---------
>>>>> 
>>>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>>> 
>>>>>> =3D20
>>>>>> Another topic of growing controversy is whether the flags of
>>>>>> seven Southern states should be replaced because of some
>>>>>> historical connection or visual resemblance to one or another
>> Confederate flag.
>>>>>> (The Mississippi flag actually includes the rebel flag in its
>>>>>> canton.)
>>>>>> =3D20
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm surprised that some of the flags have any connection to the
>>>>> Confederacy=3D .  I grew up in TN, and have always thought that
>>>>> the TN flag is well design=3D ed and attractive.  The arguments
>>>>> that is connected to the Confederacy coul=3D d be just as easily
>>>>> applied to say it is connected to the Republic.  I thin=3D k they
>> are reaching.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>>> 
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIFAg&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=RQLrvRGGDSSGkMzftiOHQsXxWGMhdBMkYKnGq3wVEkI&s=c4igKAkcgzp7jFaEWllsG7ZawRTVV_iNKvead0dKl9c&e= 
>>>>> 
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> --
>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>>> truth."
>>>> =20
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIFAg&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=RQLrvRGGDSSGkMzftiOHQsXxWGMhdBMkYKnGq3wVEkI&s=c4igKAkcgzp7jFaEWllsG7ZawRTVV_iNKvead0dKl9c&e= 
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIFAg&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=RQLrvRGGDSSGkMzftiOHQsXxWGMhdBMkYKnGq3wVEkI&s=c4igKAkcgzp7jFaEWllsG7ZawRTVV_iNKvead0dKl9c&e= 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> truth."
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIFAg&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=RQLrvRGGDSSGkMzftiOHQsXxWGMhdBMkYKnGq3wVEkI&s=c4igKAkcgzp7jFaEWllsG7ZawRTVV_iNKvead0dKl9c&e= 
> 
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIFAg&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=RQLrvRGGDSSGkMzftiOHQsXxWGMhdBMkYKnGq3wVEkI&s=c4igKAkcgzp7jFaEWllsG7ZawRTVV_iNKvead0dKl9c&e= 

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