[Ads-l] n-word update (UNCLASSIFIED)

Joel Berson berson at ATT.NET
Wed Jun 24 01:09:46 UTC 2015 

Jon, do you mean eliminated in the last few days, post the Charleston killings, or longer ago?

Joel

      From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
 To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU 
 Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 9:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [ADS-L] n-word update (UNCLASSIFIED)
   
The license plates are being talked about too.  Virginia and Tennessee have
just eliminated theirs.

JL



On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 8:30 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:      Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: n-word update (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Are they really talking about the state flags, or the state-issued =
> license plates, which include available options incorporating the Stars =
> and Bars (that's for Virginia, Tennessee, and other states of the old =
> Confederacy?  There was something on the TV news about it, and I see now =
> this piece on politico:
>
> =
> http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/confederate-license-plates-in-crossh=
> airs-but-not-in-south-carolina-119335.html
>
> If I'm right, that clears up the question about semiotics; the =
> confederate flag on the license plates is a confederate flag.
>
> LH
>
> > On Jun 23, 2015, at 3:10 PM, Mullins, Bill CIV (US) =
> <william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL> wrote:
> >=20
> > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> > Caveats: NONE
> >=20
> > If only he were a semiotician.  Then it would have been obvious.
> >=20
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> >> Behalf Of Jonathan Lighter
> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 2:09 PM
> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: n-word update (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >>=20
> >>=20
> >> I just checked with a white lawyer friend of mine - a lifelong
> >> Tennessean of rural background, a Democrat, a supporter of liberal
> >> clauses, and a former history major.
> >>=20
> >> I asked if he'd ever thought the Tennessee state flag "resembled" the
> >> CSA flag.
> >>=20
> >> He said, "I never thought about it before. I just remember thinking =
> it
> >> was an attractive design. ...Now that I do think of it...There's no
> >> resemblance."
> >>=20
> >> But maybe he was in deep, deep denial. The more I stare fixedly, with
> >> my mind blank, the more it starts to remind me of the *Nazi* =
> flag...red
> >> background, charged disk in the middle with white, same
> >> shape...Strange....
> >>=20
> >> Jeez!  Alert the media!
> >>=20
> >> JL
> >>=20
> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Mullins, Bill CIV (US) <
> >> william.d.mullins18.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
> >>=20
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> -----------------------
> >>> Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> Poster:      "Mullins, Bill CIV (US)"
> >> <william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL>
> >>> Subject:      Re: n-word update (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >>>=20
> >>> =
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> -
> >>> ---------
> >>>=20
> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> >>> Caveats: NONE
> >>>=20
> >>> The North Carolina Flag evokes the Texas Flag, not the Confederacy.
> >>>=20
> >>> All of the "connections" between the Tennessee flag and the
> >>> Confederacy com=3D e from an article by Steven Knowlton, who is an =
> Asst
> >>> Professor at the Univ =3D of Memphis.  His BA (History) and MLIS =
> (Lib
> >>> Sciences) are from Michigan uni=3D versities, so he must be a Yankee
> >> and
> >>> and his arguments and conclusions are=3D
> >>>  therefore SUSPECT. =3D20
> >>>=20
> >>> His argument boils down to "People in the South pined for the
> >> Confederacy.
> >>> =3D
> >>> Therefore similarities between the Tn flag and the Confederate
> >> Battle
> >>> Flag=3D  (white stars on a blue charge, red and blue design =
> elements)
> >>> evoke the Con=3D federate flag.  QED."
> >>>=20
> >>> Never mind that the elements in the TN flag which are common to the
> >>> Confede=3D rate flag are also common to the U.S. Flag, and are in
> >>> general good patriot=3D ic design elements which are common to many
> >>> flags which have nothing to do =3D with, and predate, the =
> Confederacy
> >>> (see Betsy Ross designs, or French or Br=3D itish flags).
> >>>=20
> >>> Never mind that the guy who designed the TN flag wrote openly about
> >>> what th=3D e design elements symbolized, and none of them had =
> anything
> >>> to do with the =3D Late Unpleasantness.  Never mind that he lived in
> >>> East Tn, a pro-Union part=3D  of the state.  Never mind that
> >>> contemporary news coverage of the new flag =3D never mentioned any
> >>> connection to the Confederacy.
> >>>=20
> >>> Plus, Godwin's law applies to his article.  Nazi flags evoked
> >> elements
> >>> of e=3D arlier German flags, therefore TN flag evokes CSA.
> >>> =3D20
> >>>=20
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> >>>> Behalf Of Jonathan Lighter
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 11:31 AM
> >>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>>> Subject: Re: n-word update (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>> ---------------
> >>>> --------
> >>>> Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>> Poster:      Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >>>> Subject:      Re: n-word update (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >>>>=20
> >>>> =
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> -
> >>>> --
> >>>> --------
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> If you think that's a reach, try North Carolina....
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> Much of this argument strikes me as offensively patronizing. The
> >>>> case  of South Carolina was egregious: the battle flag went up over
> >>>> the State  House in 1961 as a protest against the Civil Rights
> >>>> Movement. That was  back when Strom "Dixiecrat" Thurmond was a U.S.
> >>>> Senator. Some years ago  an attempt was made to remove the flag,
> >>>> which ended in the compromise  that it would not be flown over the
> >>>> House, but must continue to be  flown in the grounds.
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> Wikipedia doesn't seem to cover these events, so I'm relying in
> >> CNN.
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> That's an actual Confederate flag, not a design perhaps suggested
> >> by
> >>>> it  (or vaguely suggesting it). And regardless of the Civil War, it
> >>>> was  placed there as an intentional affront to black people and the
> >>>> federal  government.
> >>>> Within living memory.
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> JL
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Mullins, Bill CIV (US) <
> >>>> william.d.mullins18.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>>> -----------------------
> >>>>> Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>>> Poster:      "Mullins, Bill CIV (US)"
> >>>> <william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL>
> >>>>> Subject:      Re: n-word update (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> -
> >>>>> ---
> >>>> -
> >>>>> ---------
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> >>>>> Caveats: NONE
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>>> =3D3D20
> >>>>>> Another topic of growing controversy is whether the flags of
> >>>>>> seven Southern states should be replaced because of some
> >>>>>> historical connection or visual resemblance to one or another
> >> Confederate flag.
> >>>>>> (The Mississippi flag actually includes the rebel flag in its
> >>>>>> canton.)
> >>>>>> =3D3D20
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>> I'm surprised that some of the flags have any connection to the
> >>>>> Confederacy=3D3D .  I grew up in TN, and have always thought that
> >>>>> the TN flag is well design=3D3D ed and attractive.  The arguments
> >>>>> that is connected to the Confederacy coul=3D3D d be just as easily
> >>>>> applied to say it is connected to the Republic.  I thin=3D3D k =
> they
> >> are reaching.
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> >>>>> Caveats: NONE
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> The American Dialect Society - =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.americandialect.=
> org&d=3DAwIFAg&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsS=
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> kcgzp7jFaEWllsG7ZawRTVV_iNKvead0dKl9c&e=3D=20
> >>>>>=20
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> =3D20
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> >>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >>>> truth."
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> The American Dialect Society - =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.americandialect.=
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> >>>=20
> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> >>> Caveats: NONE
> >>>=20
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.americandialect.=
> org&d=3DAwIFAg&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsS=
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> kcgzp7jFaEWllsG7ZawRTVV_iNKvead0dKl9c&e=3D=20
> >>>=20
> >>=20
> >>=20
> >>=20
> >> --
> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >> truth."
> >>=20
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.americandialect.=
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> >=20
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> > Caveats: NONE
> >=20
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - =
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> org&d=3DAwIFAg&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsS=
> xPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3DRQLrvRGGDSSGkMzftiOHQsXxWGMhdBMkYKnGq3wVEkI&s=3Dc4igKA=
> kcgzp7jFaEWllsG7ZawRTVV_iNKvead0dKl9c&e=3D=20
>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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