[Ads-l] Now 1852, was Re: [ADS-L] "there is always room higher up" 1854 (and 1853?)

Stephen Goranson goranson at DUKE.EDU
Fri Sep 4 13:51:59 UTC 2015

I have now found the quote attributed to Webster in Edward Everett Hale,  Christian duty to emigrants: a sermon delivered before the Boston Society for the Prevention of Pauperism, at the Old South Church in Boston, May 9, 1852. (Boston: John Wilson & on, 1852) pages 13-14 [Sabin Americana] The asterisk is his.
[begin quote]
But above those ranks of life are the fields of life into which a Christian system would lead up the armies of English emigration, without moving them from their native land. "There is [/p. 14] room higher up"*
*This remark is Mr. Webster's, as I have heard it quoted, as if used by him in conversation. It seems to embody the whole theory of improvement in social order. 
[end quote]

Daniel Webster was still alive at the time of this sermon.

Thanks, Garson, for the info on Farmer's Almanack. I didn't check that as thoroughly as you, and should have added even more question marks after the GB snippet claim, or deleted it.

Stephen Goranson

From: American Dialect Society ... on behalf of ADSGarson O'Toole ...
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 2:31 PM
To: ...
Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "there is always room higher up" 1854 (and 1853?)

Stephen wrote:
> The subject version also appears in Old Farmer's Almanack
> for 1854 (snippet, p. 51 published in 1853?) and in the 1855
> title, published 1854 (full view p. 3).

The HathiTrust database contains editions for several years of "The
(Old) Farmer's Almanack". One volume contains the years 1849-58. I
think that the data provided by Google Books is faulty, and the match
in the 1854 Almanack (released in 1853) is illusory. Here is a link to
the target combined volume at HathiTrust:


GB indicates a match on page 51, but the 1854 Almanack is in full view
at HathiTrust, and it is only 48 pages long. There is a match on page
three of the 1855 Almanack (as you noted in your message).

The problem can be explained by a known GB error mechanism. Sometimes
GB does not reset the page counter properly when it is processing a
new issue within a single volume. The page counter continues to
increase as if the new issue has been tacked on to the previous issue.

Thanks for sharing information about the quotation attributed to Daniel Webster.

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Stephen Goranson ... wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society ...
> Poster:       Stephen Goranson ...
> Subject:      "there is always room higher up" 1854 (and 1853?)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Attributed to Daniel Webster (d. 1852) is the quote above. Other versions a=
> ttested later, as far as I've seen, include
> "always room at the top," "room enough up stairs," "room in the upper story=
> ," etc.
> 'Mr. Webster is said to have stated this great principle of true social ref=
> orm in conversation once, when some one asked him if the profession of law =
> were not crowded. " I think not," he said, " there is always room higher up=
> ." EDWARD E. HALE Worcester, Massachusetts Nov. 14, 1854'
> https://books.google.com/books?id=3DPMMiAAAAMAAJ&pg=3DPA12&dq=3D%22always+r=
> oom+higher+up%22&hl=3Den&sa=3DX&ved=3D0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMIksH38YHbxwIVyVweCh0a=
> OQ27#v=3Donepage&q=3D%22always%20room%20higher%20up%22&f=3Dfalse
> Prize essays on juvenile delinquency--House of Refuge (Philadelphia, Pa.) p=
> . xii.
> The subject version also appears in Old Farmer's Almanack for 1854 (snippet=
> , p. 51 published in 1853?) and in the 1855 title, published 1854 (full vie=
> w p. 3).
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